Talk:Umm al-Hiran

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Wikilinks please

Could someone with an acceptable account please add the wiki link for the the tribe: Abu Alkian? Thanks in advance. 125.255.40.135 (talk) 02:09, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Updating 18 January 2017 Incident

Hi, Please have a look at a discussion we had at Talk:2017_Umm_al-Hiran_incident#Lead. Looks like that article is no longer needed, but the first paragraph of the section about the incident should be updated to reflects all the facts in a non-biased way. This is the draft of the lead of the incident's article combined with the information present here, I think it can be used as a base:

Before dawn on the morning of January 18, 2017 when Israeli police officers and a Green Patrol of the Israel Land Authority arrived at the village to implement home demolition orders, they were met by a large group of protesters. An Israeli-Arab village resident Yacoub Abu Al-Qia’an was driving a Toyota Land Cruiser SUV at low speed, (not exceeding 20 kilometers per hour) on the Umm al-Hiran village road in the the general direction of a group of policemen. They suspected the vehicle and opened fire. Forensics investigation indicates that the driver may have been struck in the knee from that initial gunfire. The vehicle subsequently accelerated down the hill and careened into another group of police, killing 1st Sgt Erez Levi. Abu Al-Qia'an was also killed. Police and Minister of Security Gilad Erdan initially asserted that Abu Al-Qia’an was a terrorist, inspired by ISIS, and that he was shot after accelerating the vehicle in the direction of the police.

“WarKosign ” 14:25, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The investigatio what happaned was transfer to the chief of the State Attorney of Israel. I suggest it would be better to wait for the result of his investigation. Hanay (talk) 14:42, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever state attorney of Israel decides of course should be added to the article, but whatever it is - someone will dispute its neutrality, so we won't be able to represent these findings as the objective facts that certainly represent exactly what happened. We need to represent all the objective undisputed facts and alternative interpretations. “WarKosign ” 20:32, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The opening sentences as this page already exists provide a bare-bones factual description of events that is free of claim or motive on the part of either side.

The section already provides additional context by including initial statements by Erdan and the police which in turn suggest the claimed reason for which the police officers opened fire, and it also includes a brief note of some discoveries found after the fact that raise dispute over those statements.

To change the section to say the police "suspected" is to make a statement that is too vague and unsupported by any objective evidence available. The wiki article should not be hinting at "alibis" or "exculpation" for why the police shot at the vehicle unless there is definitive and undisputed third-party evidence as to why.

Also, to change the article to definitively say that the vehicle was headed "towards" or "in the general direction" of a group of policemen is also a loaded description that can be taken by some quarters to insinuate that it was being driven "at" the policemen. What might work without insinuating overt threat (for which there is no evidence) might be to say the vehicle was travelling through an area where the police were conducting operations.

However, even left unchanged, this section already provides sufficient balance for each side until the formal investigation report comes out.CURSURY (talk) 16:41, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"on the village road in the general direction" is an objective fact that is mentioned by sources and is also evident from the video. "driving away from the scene" is exactly "hinting at alibi" we should be avoiding. We can't tell what the intention of the driver was, we only know what he actually did. Currently the section is not bare-bones factual representation. It clearly leans toward one interpretation of the event and not the other, which a wikipedia article mustn't do. “WarKosign ” 20:32, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Your insistence on "in the direction of the police" is already represented in that section by the reporting of the initial comments about the incident by the police and Erdan. That reporting provides sufficient balance. The article as presently provided does not demonize police nor does it exculpate them, nor does it do the same for the driver. This is supposed to be a summation of events, not hasbara.CURSURY (talk) 03:13, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There are new informations available

Forensics Helps Widen Architecture’s Mission. New York Times
Shin Bet report said to have ruled out terror in Bedouin village car-ramming. Times of Israel

best regards--5glogger (talk) 18:42, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Return

In 1956, the villagers of Umm al-Hiran submitted a request to return to their original lands, which was rejected by the Israeli authorities.

This statement has been in the article for a long time, but I can't find any sources for it. I think it springs from a misunderstanding since the tribe approached the military government in 1956, but not about returning. ImTheIP (talk) 11:20, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 October 2020

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In the section Killing of Yacoub Abu Al-Qia'an, 'Islamic State' currently directs to a disambiguation page. It should be changed to direct to Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. Lennart97 (talk) 10:58, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done – Thjarkur (talk) 11:16, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]