Talk:African U-20 Women's World Cup qualification

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Requested move 17 January 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved to African U-20 Women's World Cup qualification per #Closing analysis. – wbm1058 (talk) 20:47, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

African U-20 Cup of Nations for Women → ? – Okay so basically there's no trophy, no host country or anything that indicates the existence of a competition called African U-20 Cup of Nations for Women. It's simply a qualifying tournament for the FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup and that means the current title should be changed. For me the only suitable options are either African U-20 Women's World Cup Qualifying Tournament or FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup African Qualifying Tournament, despite both might break WP:RECOGNIZABILITY. I couldn't think of other possible titles and I wouldn't mind if someone bring up another suitable title, but definitely I'd be against keeping the current title for the reason I mentioned above. Ben5218 (talk) 22:24, 17 January 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Iffy★Chat -- 22:07, 3 February 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 05:43, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tend to agree. At least nowadays CAF doesn't use this title. Also the editions follow another naming scheme. U-17 article then also. -Koppapa (talk) 07:08, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 10:16, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - standard naming convention is '[Tournament name] qualification' as shown by FIFA World Cup qualification et al - so if this is the qualification for the FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup move to FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup qualification and expand to cover other confederations, or if you want a standalone article move to FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup qualification (Africa) or FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup qualification (CAF) or similar. Giant Snowman 10:20, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that all other five confederations use their own U-19 or U-20 tournament as a qualifier to the World Cup, with Africa being the only confederation that doesn't have an official tournament for this age. Because of that, FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup qualification (Africa) or FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup qualification (CAF) won't be a suitable options since we won't have any content to add to other confederations' articles, which will be already included in other articles.

For example, if we created an article called FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup qualification (AFC) then we won't have anything to add to it considering all the information needed are already included in the 2019 AFC U-19 Women's Championship article, and the same applies to the other four confederations. Ben5218 (talk) 11:13, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator Comment: Whatever is the outcome of this request, it should also be applied at the African U-17 Cup of Nations for Women article, another women's tournament made by CAF that has the same case as this one. Ben5218 (talk) 18:39, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The current name is recognisable, common, concise and unambiguous. No reason to change it. Set up redirects from any other proposed titles that are currently redlinked if you think they will be helpful, but I'm skeptical even of that. Andrewa (talk) 18:59, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The current name is hardly recognisable if no such competition exists by that name. Have we essentially come up with our own name for something? – Pee Jay 12:20, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Not sure how this name is recognizable or unambiguous. As I said, there is NO tournament with this name. No trophy, no host country and nothing that indicates the existent of the competition. It's just a special qualifier tournament for the FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup. How naming an article after something that doesn't exist can be helpful? Ben5218 (talk) 22:50, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Closing analysis

Comment. I'm here because this has been open for 74 days, an absurdly long time. Frankly I'm having trouble understanding why this one is so hard. The obvious title is this first alternative suggested, African U-20 Women's World Cup Qualifying Tournament, as this is the parent article for:

...which simply insert the year of the tournament in front of the de facto standard title.

The lead sentence: The '''2020 African U-20 Women's World Cup Qualifying Tournament''' is the 10th edition of the [[African U-20 Cup of Nations for Women|African U-20 Women's World Cup Qualifying Tournament]]

already pipes the link from the current title to the new suggested and de facto standard title.

As I see at FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup § Qualification the current title follows a "naming convention" used by the other continental tournaments:

AFC U-19 Women's Championship (Asia)
CONCACAF Women's U-20 Championship (North, Central America and Caribbean)
South American Under-20 Women's Football Championship CONMEBOL (South America)
OFC U-20 Women's Championship (Oceania)
UEFA Women's U-19 Championship (Europe)

The other five continental tournaments all apparently have official names which Wikipedia uses. It has been asserted that Africa is an exception to this as it doesn't have an official name for its tournament. We shouldn't invent one.

For the adults we have FIFA Women's World Cup § Qualification and sub-article FIFA Women's World Cup qualification. For U-20 there is FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup § Qualification which has no sub-article. The problem with African U-20 Women's World Cup Qualifying Tournament is that it is a proper name, which implies that this is the official name for that tournament. U-20 Women's World Cup is a more concise form of FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup; I'm creating that redirect now.

The men have Africa U-20 Cup of Nations. We should make doubly sure that there is no equivalent official name for the women.

Africa Women Cup of Nations, 2018 Africa Women Cup of Nations. But official website doesn't show equivalent boxes for women youth competitions.

DECISIONS OF CAF EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE ON 6 AUGUST 2015

1. Harmonising the names of CAF Competitions

The Executive Committee decided to name all competitions involving national teams as Africa Cup of Nations, distinguishing them just by their particularity (i.e. gender or age group), with the exception of the African Nations Championship. Thus, the official names of CAF competitions are:

Africa Cup of Nations
African Nations Championship
Africa Women Cup of Nations
Africa U-23 Cup of Nations
Africa U-20 Cup of Nations
Africa U-17 Cup of Nations

The other five continental tournaments are called Championships because they actually determine a champion. In contrast, the African "tournament" ends after the third round; there is no final match so there is no champion. There are two winners (qualifiers). Given that tournaments usually determine champions, should we even call this a tournament? Rather than calling this a "qualifying tournament", "qualification" is more concise, therefore African U-20 Women's World Cup qualification.

There is a Category:FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup qualification but no main article for the category FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup qualification. I'm creating that now.

Components of the title

It was suggested above that "FIFA" be included, but none of the six qualification tournaments include "FIFA"
Four of six use the confederation name (AFC, CONCACAF, OFC, UEFA) while two do not (African, South American) – stick with status quo ante
All include "U-19" or "U-20" (South America uses "Under-20") – stick with status quo ante
"for Women" → "Women's" – this was an outlier
"Championship" → "World Cup qualification" – this is an outlier; the only one that's not a Championship

— wbm1058 (talk) 20:33, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.