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untitled/COI complaint

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This article was started by user registered with the name Alan M Chambers, who has also been editing the article on Exodus (organization), despite warnings to stop.--Larrybob 16:39, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know who started this article, but I resurrected it. When I first looked at it, there was a redirect from Alan Chambers to Exodus (organization), as if Alan Chambers was Exodus. I am not Alan Chambers, nor do I know Alan Chambers personally. However, he is an important player in the Ex-gay movement and he needs to have a page. Whether it was originally created out of vanity or not is irrelevant. I wrote this page. Look at the history. Alan never wrote what is on here now, nor has he touched this article in almost a year. True, I borrowed a lot from his biography, but I also took out stuff and put in more stuff. For example, I took out his self-assesment of himself that he is in a unique position to help those with same-gender attraction, since I thought that was vanity. I tried to only leave in what he has actually done, and less contreversial statements like the fact that he promotes the traditional family. I don't think this is the place to debate the validity of Exodus or whether the traditional family should be promoted. It simply states what he has done and what he stands for. I fail to see the NPOV argument.Joshuajohanson 17:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Look further back in the history. Before the redirect, there was content on the page. There was a vote at the time to convert to Redirect. The change to a redirect page and your ressurection of it were both changes made after my old comment.--Larrybob 23:09, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From Alan Chambers

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I stopped editing the Exodus International page except for appropriate edits that fit within the rules of Wikipedia.

Additionally,when I registered it said start a talk article on Alan M Chamber. I did so--it is not self promoting; it simply states who I am related to my position at Exodus, which is relevent.

Is your problem with this is that someone is now aware of and challenging your biased edits about Exodus International? 71.55.2.89 21:20, 18 April 2006 (UTC)Alan M Chambers[reply]

Generally speaking, one does not start an article about oneself at Wikipedia. Such articles are often considered vanity articles, and then deleted. It would, however, be entirely appropriate to put a little information about yourself, your background, etc. on your own user page. There is a difference between Alan Chambers the article in the encyclopedia and Alan M Chambers the Wikipedia editor. eaolson 23:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Alan, since you were responding to my comment, I assume you are referring to me in the phrase "challenging your biased edits about Exodus International." If you look at the logs for the Exodus article, you will see that my only edits were to fix the ISBNs for referenced books and to add the POV tag. I have acted with a great deal of restraint. --Larrybob 16:23, 19 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Inverted commas

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The article currently reads, 'As an adolescent and young adult, Chambers "struggled with homosexuality"' and 'He has now "embraced heterosexuality."' I think this use of scare quotes is derogatory and should be changed. It should be easy to re-write this article so that it does not strongly hint that anything Chambers says should be taken with a grain of salt. Skoojal (talk) 01:46, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please respect Alan Chambers and Wikipedia's BLP Policy

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I have removed several statements from this article because they were not sourced to reliable sources. I spent some time looking at Wikipedia's policies carefully before making this change. The BLP policy says that, 'Never use self-published books, zines, websites, webforums, blogs and tweets as a source for material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the biographical material (see below). "Self-published blogs" in this context refers to personal and group blogs.' Jim Burroway's BoxTurtle Bulletin site is a blog, and it is definitely not a reliable source according to this policy. I know that some people may be biased against Alan, but in my view he is a good man who wants to help people, and set them free from homosexuality. I ask other editors to please set Wikipedia's liberal bias aside and respect Alan and the BLP policy. Christian Existentialist (talk) 04:07, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Does Chamber self identify as LGBT?

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He wrote a book describing how he "left homosexuality", appropriately entitled Leaving Homosexuality. In a Charisma Magazine article he speaks derisively and in the third person about gays. He is happily married with children. In spite of his admissions of same sex attraction, he does not self-identify as LGBT. Per WP:BLPCAT we cannot classify him as LGBT.– Lionel (talk) 22:34, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's a total nonsense, he self admitted he was gay. Mardochee1 (talk) 01:09, 8 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Chamber has self identified as LGBT

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Alan Chambers wrote his book titled, "Leaving Homosexuality" in 2009, and the title also reveals that Chambers then had acknowledged that he was gay. In addition, in 2012, Chambers has said that majority of all the persons he has met who had gone through Exodus' reparative therapy, 99.9% have not experienced a change in their sexual orientation. Alan Chambers is included in this percentage as he also declared that he too still has same-sex attraction, and argued that anyone who says he does not have same sex attraction is not true. These are conflicting points to define Chambers to be heterosexual, because ex-gays no longer consider themselves gay, but straight. So for Chambers to say he still has same-sex attraction makes it impossible for him to be absolutely heterosexual. Therefore I am puzzled as to why there is the objection to Chamber's categorization as LGBT when he has applied the definition of 'Homosexual' to himself, by stating that he [still] has same sex attraction? David Bowie is married to a woman but he is also categorized as LGBT. It is not impossible for gay men to marry women while accepting the fact that they have same-sex attraction.

Going by Alan Chambers' remarks, homosexuality is not a condition that one can walk away from; and if that was the case, it has not happened to him because he still has same-sex attraction and according to Wikipedia, sexuality is basically about 'Attraction'. It is now for Alan Chambers to make a public statement that he is not gay because he does not have same-sex attraction. Until he refutes his present statement that he has same-sex attraction, I believe it is just for him to be categorized as LGBT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bemorej (talk • contribs) 18:58, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, the default would be to avoid the categorization. We may think that logically he 'should identify as LGBT, but not everyone is logical. StAnselm (talk) 01:51, 8 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comment

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Does the current meet WP:AT and WP:NCP standards? If not, what name do you suggest? --George Ho (talk) 16:18, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It would more normal to use his profession or trade although that is difficult to work out from the article but perhaps Alan Chambers (pastor) may be more suitable. MilborneOne (talk) 16:27, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Alan Chambers (pastor) seems to be the most appropriate. You don't need an RFC for this, just do it - Cwobeel (talk) 17:36, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't had "(pastor)" in mind. That is why I created RFC. By the way, I was thinking Alan Chambers (activist), but I don't know. --George Ho (talk) 17:48, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page to Alan Chambers (activist), per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 07:24, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Chambers (Exodus International) → ? – This person is no longer associated with Exodus International, a defunct (condemned) ex-gay organization. Therefore, I wonder if we should call him Alan Chambers (pastor) or Alan Chambers (activist). Somehow, I have problems of him as "pastor" because I never thought of him as one, but I wonder what you think. If renaming is needed, but neither name works for you, what is your suggestion? George Ho (talk) 18:15, 23 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think pastor is better than activist. - Cwobeel (talk) 18:24, 23 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support a rename and agree with Cwobeel that you can probably just boldly do it. Probably the least controversial disamiguation would be to include his middle initial M. as he uses in his Twitter feed. Activist would be my second choice, followed by pastor.- MrX 18:29, 23 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – I would personally favor the parenthetical "(activist)", as he seems to primarily go by his first and last name, not his middle initial. --V2Blast (talk) 07:27, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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I have just modified one external link on Alan Chambers (activist). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Primary-sourced resume-like section - moving here

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Are any of these usable as actual references?

  • "My Exodus: From FEAR to GRACE" Chambers, Alan, Zondervan Publishers (2015) ISBN 978-0-3103-4248-9
  • "Leaving Homosexuality: A Practical Guide for Men and Women Looking for a Way Out. " Chambers

He has been interviewed by numerous television, radio and print outlets across North America and Europe, including WORLD, TIME, ABC’s 20/20, MSNBC’s Buchanan & Press and ABC’s Nightline.[1] His editorials have appeared in The Orlando Sentinel and The Boston Globe.[2]

  • Life Today with James & Betty Robison, "Exposing the Myths About Homosexuality", October 29, 2007, interviewed Alan Chambers[3]
  • CNN's Anderson Cooper 360, broadcast February 6, 2007, interviewed Alan Chambers[4]
  • The 700 Club CBN News segment, "Study Says Gays Can Change Orientation," broadcast February 19, 2008, interviewed Alan Chambers[5]
  • CNN's Paula Zahn Now, broadcast June 27, 2007, interviewed Alan Chambers[6]
  • Fox's The Morning Show with Mike & Juliet (syndicated), broadcast September 13, 2007, interviewed Alan & Leslie Chambers[7]
  • "Pray the Gay Away?", Our America with Lisa Ling, OWN: Oprah Winfrey Network. Originally broadcast March 8, 2011.
  • MSNBC's Kara Blizzard Live, broadcast October 9, 2011, interviewed Alan Chambers[8]
  • "Pray the Gay Away? — Breaking News," Our America with Lisa Ling, OWN: Oprah Winfrey Network. Originally broadcast August 21, 2012
  • "God and Gays," Our America with Lisa Ling, OWN: Oprah Winfrey Network. Originally broadcast June 20, 2012[9]
  • Chambers was also interviewed in an episode of the Swedish TV show Uppdrag granskning, "Bögbotarna", which aired in May 2014.
  • Christianity Today, "The Transgender Moment", February 12, 2008, interviewed Alan Chambers[10]
  • Christianity Today, "An Older, Wiser Ex-Gay Movement", September 13, 2007, interviewed Alan Chambers[11]
  • WORLD magazine, "Good From Bad", February 9, 2008, quotes statistics on Exodus[12]
  • New Man, "Alan Chambers Talks to New Man About His Ministry to Homosexuals", March 20, 2008, interview with Alan Chambers[13]

- David Gerard (talk) 10:18, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Exodus International - Board of Directors Archived August 11, 2007, at the Wayback Machine
  2. ^ Cite error: The named reference autogenerated1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ http://lifeoutreach.httpsvc.vitalstreamcdn.com/lifeoutreach_vitalstream_com/SWF/2007/10/1029.swf[permanent dead link]
  4. ^ CNN.com - Transcripts Archived October 3, 2016, at the Wayback Machine
  5. ^ Study Says Gays Can Change Orientation - U.S. - CBN News Archived March 3, 2016, at the Wayback Machine
  6. ^ YouTube - CNN Paula Zahn Now 06.27.07 - So-Called Gay "Cure" Archived March 15, 2016, at the Wayback Machine
  7. ^ YouTube - Mike & Juliet - ex-gays (Pt1) Archived March 3, 2016, at the Wayback Machine
  8. ^ YouTube.com - Kara Blizzard Hates Homosexuals Archived December 20, 2016, at the Wayback Machine
  9. ^ "God and Gays: Historical Timeline Infographic," OWN: Oprah Winfrey Network, 19 June 2013 Archived February 16, 2014, at the Wayback Machine, accessed 8 July 2013.
  10. ^ The Transgender Moment | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction Archived October 22, 2015, at the Wayback Machine
  11. ^ An Older, Wiser Ex-Gay Movement | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction Archived March 3, 2016, at the Wayback Machine
  12. ^ WORLD Magazine | Today's News, Christian Views Archived February 18, 2012, at the Wayback Machine
  13. ^ New Man eMagazine Archived October 20, 2008, at the Wayback Machine
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