Talk:Battle of Khartoum (2023–present)

This article was nominated for deletion on 16 April 2023. The result of the discussion was keep.

Africa: Sudan High‑importance

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Military history: African / Post-Cold War

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This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
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	African military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

On 21 August 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Battle of Khartoum. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Persistent grammatical issues

I appreciate the enthusiasm for the topic, but please - review what has been written before publishing. Often, the content of the article has made absolutely no sense - for instance, the sentence,

"the Sudanese government announced the closure of the airspace of the country, which was initally only for to the international airport which already was enough for country's to suspend, leading the countries which had already suspended flights to finally have them suspended as a whole, on the same day casualties in the country almost doubled from 97 to 185 deaths, most of them were most likely in Nyala and Khartoum,"

is not just a run-on sentence, but one whose grammatical structure is almost completely incoherent. The persistent usage of commas rather than periods makes it come off as more rambling, rather than a proper sentence, and large chunks of it simply do not make grammatical sense ("which was initally only for to the international airport which already was enough for country's to suspend, leading the countries which had already suspended flights"). The above example is just one of many I've had to restructure today.

Feel free to edit, but please, please, run your content through some sort of grammar check before publishing. Otherwise, it keeps falling on us to clean it up. The Kip (talk) 01:43, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, @The Kip

Thanks a lot for the recommendation, it can sometimes rush on articles like this one, thank you for cleaning the mess I recently made, I'm gonna look into this article further today. NYMan6 (talk) 11:07, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not in the source

There is no information about the deaths of 4 UN workers and 1 Japanese in the sources. I didn't find this information even in a search engine. DBatura (talk) 16:31, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

HI @DBatura

I do not know who left it there, I can confirm an Indian death but can't find one for a Japanese civilian we should try an find out before we delete the text.

NYMan6 (talk) 19:17, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Who wrote to Belligerents Houthis, Wagner group and even Kurdistan Workers' Party?

Someone added to the Belligerents section on the Sudan side: PFH (I don't know what the squiggle means, but there is a PKK flag next to it) and Wagner group and "Houti Jemen" were added to the Rapid Support Forces. In addition to the fact that this is without a source, I would like to mainly ask if the person is serious or if he is just a troll. Dr. Ivan Kučera (talk) 09:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was also confused on that @Dr. Ivan Kučera, from what I've seen it was a IP user with 78 in his username, he even put Adolf Hitler as a commander and the Yemeni Air Force, we should contact this guy on his talk page for a violation.

NYMan6 (talk) 10:57, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Was just a vandal/troll, they've since been blocked. The Kip (talk) 18:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone upload a picture of Khartoum's fighting?

Please there are thousands of pictures, I'll try posting free use but please anyone upload at least 3 pictures of the battle onto commons NYMan6 (talk) 22:16, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this up for deletion?

No one explained why this should be deleted so why? Oddballslover (talk) 15:58, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Foreign victims

The sources do not indicate where they were killed. Perhaps they died not in Khartoum, but in other cities. DBatura (talk) 10:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

American and Indian died in Khartoum, already looked through several sources as well, the Iraqi one is real and im still looking into it. Deletion of it won't be necessary until I confirm. NYMan6 (talk) 10:46, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The source for 'local' civilian deaths doesn't actually say whether they were Sudanese or 'foreign'. The infobox and text are wildly out of line and out of date. It is probably the case that a reliable estimate would be better than incoherent 'false' specifics. Pincrete (talk) 17:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

April 15th and 23rd sections have been vandalized. 2600:1702:2B50:1370:E1C1:2616:D198:CAB (talk) 22:29, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A part of it was you, but I'd agree we need a {{PP-VANDALISM}} tag NYMan6 (talk) 10:38, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New developments

The page has not been updated to reflect the developments over the past 3 weeks. Meanwhile, multiple sources report airstrikes and artillery fire in Khartoum (as recently as yesterday), e.g. The Guardian or Arab News. The article would benefit from being expanded. 2A02:AB04:2C2:E300:7C03:7CF:37CC:129E (talk) 07:10, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, I'll try to make improvements NYMan6 (talk) 19:48, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Battle of Omdurman (2023) into Battle of Khartoum (2023)

Unanimous agreement to merge. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:19, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Omdurman is part of greater Khartoum. There isn't really anything in the very short forked Omdurman page that couldn't be easily merged in to the Khartoum article. It makes more sense to cover the events as one topic, since we already cover most events in Omdurman in the Khartoum page, and they're two parts of the same larger battle for the capital. HappyWith (talk) 15:49, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the Battle of Khartoum page explicitly says Omdurman is part of its scope in the infobox. HappyWith (talk) 15:50, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge: not sufficient coverage for a separate article and better included with Khartoum (Omdurman is part of it anyway) FuzzyMagma (talk) 20:37, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge: I agree, most of media coverage shows both battles as one Lucasmota0975 (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 21 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 00:09, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Only name. The article Siege of Mariupol is not called Siege of Mariupol (2022) because of the Battle of Mariupol (1919). Per WP:TITLEDAB, disambiguation is only necessary when there is otherwise an actual conflict in article titles. No such conflict in titles exists. Per WP:AT, concision is preferred over unnecessary precision. Parham wiki (talk) 21:59, 21 August 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 22:50, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Realistically, the dab page could be deleted with a WP:HATNOTE in its place. estar8806 (talk) ★ 22:07, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as proposed per WP:ONEOTHER, but would support Battle of Khartoum (2023) → Battle of Khartoum and Battle of Khartoum → deleted to make room for move per suggestion by estar8806. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:58, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, The name of the article Battle of Khartoum is a synthetic name that is not used by the media but used to describe warring in Khartoum as part of the 2023 Sudan conflict, simimlar to Battle of Geneina. Hence, there are couple of incidents that can be described as "Battle of Khartoum" beside Siege of Khartoum, like 2008 attack on Omdurman and Khartoum and 1976 Sudanese coup attempt. Both are similar to the 2023 Sudan conflict that involved warring and fighting in Khartoum.

FuzzyMagma (talk) 22:32, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Clearly ambiguous with the Siege of Khartoum. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:49, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Africa has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 22:50, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Military history has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 22:50, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose primary exists - Note Siege of Khartoum article opens with "Siege of Khartoum (also known as the Battle of Khartoum or Fall of Khartoum)". The disambig was only created in April this year after pointing at Siege of Khartoum since 2007. GraemeLeggett (talk) 07:52, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Chinese Gordon's defeat is clearly called "Battle of Khartoum", [1](Google Book Search)(Google Scholar Search) and is the more notable battle and more historically significant. -- 67.70.25.175 (talk) 05:31, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Photos

If anyone could upload photos to this page, or even pictures of the Jeddah agreement and such, that would be amazing. As I'm filling this page out, I don't want it to become run on and blocky. Jebiguess (talk) 02:39, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Map

We need a more detailed, neighbourhood-by-neighbourhood map of Khartoum itself, and the situation in the city (and suburbs, as well as preferrably Omdurman. 129.97.193.107 (talk) 00:08, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done Clyde H. Mapping (talk) 22:53, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed title change to the Khartoum Campaign.

This is not only directed at Khartoum. It is also including areas like Bahri (Khartoum North), Omdurman, Tuti Island, Halfyat al Milk, Jebel Aulia and more. The name could be changed to the "Khartoum Campaign". SDUpdates32349 (talk) 17:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are confusing Khartoum State and city. We previously merged the Battle of Omdurman (2023) to the current article because we are talking about the state which includes all of the areas you have mentioned and more FuzzyMagma (talk) 21:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update

This page needs an update as the last one was in November 2023. If anyone could give some sources or even update to continue putting a good amount of information into this article that would be fantastic! Vamos Palmeiras (talk) 21:05, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]