Talk:Cesena FC

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 06:47, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Now located in Talk:A.C. Cesena##Requested move 6 September 2018 due to fixing desynced talk page. Matthew_hk t c 10:56, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

On 10 January 2019 it was formalized the renaming of the club to Cesena FC, with Romagna Calcio turned into a separate club that will serve only as a youth team. Reference: official website: [1].

The new official website is https://calciocesena.com/it, with the new club using now solely the historical logo of A.C. Cesena, thus formally marking continuity between the former Cesena and its current incarnation.

I would therefore propose the following:

1. A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena (this article) to cover only the original Romagna Centro club, and mentioning the fact it has turned now into a youth team. 2. A.C. Cesena being renamed Cesena F.C. and updated with the current situation.

--Angelo (talk) 00:41, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The old version of the club (the Romagna Centro Cesena, a.k.a. R.C. Cesena) website claim the lineage to both Romagna Centro and A.C. Cesena , while the new version of the website did somehow have similar wording. For renaming, i am not sure they did the renaming process in FIGC or not, but R.C. Cesena did using the crest with F.C. and seahorses on it since the start of the 2018-19 season, which it seem more complicated on whatever R.C. Cesena a.k.a. Cesena F.C. had done a full process of acquiring the brand or full or part of the assets from the liquidator of A.C. Cesnea or not. By succession, R.C. Cesena is not a successor of A.C. Cesena in the book of FIGC, but i am not sure the reliable source or fans considered it is the successor, or more precisely the same club or not.

It actually cause more problem when S.S. Virtus Lanciano 1924 was kicked out from professional football league, but did not forbidden their youth team from operating, then some fans and entrepreneur founded a parallel team with similar name but with "another" date of foundation as A.S. Lanciano Calcio 1920, despite Virtus Lanciano acquired the phoenix club status also from FIGC after the bankruptcy of S.S. Lanciano.

More complex case of such self-claim "phoenix club" are observed with Bassano Virtus 55 S.T.. After Bassano Virtus merged with some of the assets of Vicenza Calcio (a.k.a. L.R. Vicenza) and became L.R. Vicenza Virtus , another entrepreneur bought A.C.D. Mussolente and renamed to F.C. Bassano 1903. It had a minor problem in Vicenza's side, after A.C. Vicenza 1902 was founded but failing to enter the league, except the lowest division, then owing wage saga.

So, I would preferred to keep the articles separate for "phoenix club". A.S. Lodigiani had 4 "phoenix clubs" and at least 3 are active in amateur football. Thus i did not even think anyone one of them qualify as the new primary topic of Lodigiani the football club thus changing the article title.

For Romagna Centro Cesena, a.k.a. R.C. Cesena a.k.a. Cesena F.C., i don't mind if there is well cited on lineage to A.C. Cesena only on assets/brand (commercial and legal sense) and fans sense (identity, shirts etc) instead of a sense of merger/renaming, then it may worth to merge A.C. Cesena and A.S.D. Romagna Centro Cesena (a.k.a. Cesena F.C.), and leaving A.S.D. Romagna Centro (a.k.a. Romagna Centro) as a separate article, as Romagna Centro and Romagna Centro Cesena, despite the same legal person, have different shirt pattern and club crest. Matthew hk (talk) 16:19, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't object Angelo's proposal if a few reference (non-primary source) to state the new club Cesena F.C. had acquired the assets such as the brands from the liquidator of A.C. Cesena. But it take time for myself, a fans of Italian football but not a native speaker. Matthew hk (talk) 21:33, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The assets of the old AC Cesena, including the logo, are tentatively planned to be auctioned on 16 July according to what said here. [2] In any case, as mentioned earlier, the old AC Cesena no longer exists, and this current club (now named "Cesena Football Club") is considered the continuity de facto of the old Cesena heritage, as the main club in the city, playing in the main home stadium, and the fact it was formally authorized actually to use the old logo last season. I hope that is enough to justify moving all this content to the original A.C. Cesena club (which should be renamed Cesena F.C. in that case). --Angelo (talk) 00:29, 14 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cesena F.C. merging with A.C. Cesena (& more)

Hi all again, if nobody is against it, I would proceed with the following in order to clean up things accordingly.

Move A.C. Cesena to Cesena F.C. and update it with the content related to the last season and the current one.
Move this article back to Romagna Calcio, with historical content about the club when it was still named as such, and mention about the fact it is currently a youth team-only club.

This is justified by the following:

"Cesena" as such is recognized to be Cesena F.C. (denomination was changed this year), and there is general consensus with the fanbase about the fact it is a heir of the original AC Cesena. The club itself plays at the Dino Manuzzi Stadium (the main stadium in town) and was even allowed to use the old logo for the second half of the previous season (as it was allowed by a judge as they were still making plans to hand out its rights on a specific auction).
"Romagna Calcio" is currently existing as a youth team only, as mentioned before.

Thanks, Angelo (talk) 23:46, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2. Is easier to do, as this article was initially start as A.S.D. Romagna Centro (see Special:Permalink/567786593). The first simply start a WP:RM discussion at Talk:A.C. Cesena, instead of bold move. Matthew hk (talk) 17:36, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have started a discussion at A.C. Cesena as asked above, but no reply... Angelo (talk) 23:02, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Formal RM is a templated message (see WP:RM). Did Cesena F.C. had successfully bid the assets of A.C. Cesena in July BTW? It would be a good external secondary source to make the two legal entities are connected as legit phoenix club and worth to put under the same wiki article. Matthew hk (talk) 15:30, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cesena FC launched the 79° campaign of Cesena, published on the official page of the Serie C (Link), the new club is successor of the AC Cesena.Pincheira22 (talk) 08:57, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As a side note, it seem Belgian clubs kept the successor clubs in different articles, as indicated that they have a reported re-foundation and a different Matricule numbers. For Italian club, many re-foundation had a clear cut re-assigned matricola number too. Matthew hk (talk) 17:00, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Another note. It seem the name of football club is not well protected and have no proprietors. After Lupa Frascati was renamed to Lupa Roma in 2013, a minor club was renamed to Lupa Frascati in 2015. And since Lupa Roma had dissolved its first team but not entirely dead in 2019, while the newest Lupa Frascati was the highest ranking club of all namesakes, but still not that notable to have WP:GNG passing status, it seem for a long term, they should have separate articles once they have separate GNG supporting citations. But by now the article title Lupa Roma F.C. should be untouched. Same logic on Cesena, it seem all depends on such "re-foundation" or just another club stole the name, are merit to at one umbrella article, or two. But may be no if split to 3 or more articles. Matthew hk (talk) 18:35, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As explained in the page, Cesena FC is a Phoenix club created under the agreement with the FIGC as happened in dozens of similar cases in Italian football (e.g. Torino FC, ACF Fiorentina, SSC Napoli, Venezia FC, SSC Bari, US Palermo.......). Please explain why we should make differences with those cases.--Modoetia magni (talk) 23:40, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See City of Cesena website (it.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Modoetia magni (talk • contribs) 23:50, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1. Unlike Torino, Fiorentina Napoli , Cesena did not use Article 52

2. Cesena F.C. in its official website, say it was RC Cesena , it was Polisportiva Martorano, but NOT AC CESENA. It merely heritage the main/biggest football club status of the city.

https://web.archive.org/web/20181224031255/http://www.romagnacentro.it/il-club/index.html

Il 1973 rimane quindi l’anno di fondazione della Polisportiva Martorano che nell’ultimo decennio diventerà ASD ROMAGNA CENTRO.....In seguito al fallimento dell'AC Cesena da luglio 2018 l'ASD Romagna Centro diventa ASD RC Cesena e, grazie al sostegno di Cesena FC spa, inizia una nuova avventura divenendo così la prima squadra della città di Cesena. Un libro aperto con tante pagine ancora da scrivere.

3. You cannot carry bold merge without forming consensus. Matthew hk (talk) 13:36, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

About your link. It just a invitation to apply as a representative of the city. Just if Manchester United folded, it make no sense that calling Manchester City is the same as Manchester United just because Manchester City became the main football club of the city. Matthew hk (talk) 13:38, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sources about Napoli and Fiorentina using article 52?--Modoetia magni (talk) 22:40, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge the two clubs

It has been agreed to move the article of A.C. Cesena to Cesena F.C. and to create a new article titled A.S.D. Romagna Centro on the WikiProject Football. This topic has been repeated for a long time, and we should put an end to it. Club bankruptcy in Italy is common, and does not mean that the club's history disappears as soon as it gets a new name. Sakiv (talk) 16:59, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That is not true: there is no such agreement. Spike 'em (talk) 18:42, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This was fast. If you are interested, why did you not respond to the editor who regularly edits Italian football articles, or do you just want to object? We have adressed your concerns and that's it. Sakiv (talk) 19:54, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have to reply to every single statement made and being the last to post on subject does not determine which view holds sway. If you want to move, open an RM. It was not just me who objected. Spike 'em (talk) 20:04, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, we will see.--Sakiv (talk) 20:07, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:A.C. Milan which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 20:04, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:A.C. Milan which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 08:03, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]