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Merge Disney La Chaîne proposal

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I propose that Disney La Chaîne be merged into Disney Channel (Canada). I think that the content in the Disney La Chaîne article can easily be explained in the context of Disney Channel (Canada), and the Disney Channel (Canada) article is rather short at this time and have a general overlap in information (ownership, background, etc.) that the merging of Disney La Chaîne will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. The article is current majority primary sourced and CARTT.ca, a personal professional blog. Spshu (talk) 16:37, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Per ViperSnake at FYI/Bio he stated:

Typically, re-brandings of this nature do not get separate articles unless there is a major ownership change with a complete change in scope that is significant and detailed enough for its own article (i.e. Al Jazeera America), or the new network is technically and legally distinct from the previous one (Fox Sports 1). ViperSnake151 Talk 23:34, 1 August 2014

So according to him, the merger should be with Télétoon Rétro. So that is an option.
  • Merger. recommended with Disney Channel (Canada). Same ownership, same basic information, likely lots of overlap. Will accept a merger with Télétoon Rétro, as it is a continuation of TTRfr per ViperSnake's channel re-branding statement. As sources indicate Disney Channel CA FR will be taking over TTR FR's license/slot as a re-branding as it still broadcasts cartoons. Spshu (talk) 18:54, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
'...add as nominator in such an opinion statement..." Doesn't even make sense. Second, you have opposed even having this discussion to point of objecting to the proper postings to occur give the page protection and at the same time falsely claiming that I was doing so improperly. Since, you don't seem to either know or care, you clearly are not the one to lecturing any one. You made it clear that you don't want any one else exercising judgement around here except you. Spshu (talk) 14:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: These are two separate services, broadcasting in separate languages, under separate CRTC licenses (see also Disney Junior (English Canada) and Disney Junior (French Canada)). Additionally, I object to the interpretation of my prior statements using such exact words due to the following clarification, and because consensus can change; what I essentially said was to treat these on a case-by-case basis, and use a new article if the changes are "significant and detailed enough for its own article". Discovery Kids (Canada) did not become the Nickelodeon Canada article because of this, and because it is legally considered a new channel per CRTC licensing. FYI was a fringe case, and in the case of Disney Channel Canada, we did not know whether this was going to be a "new" channel or a relaunch of an existing one. ViperSnake151  Talk  04:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no interpretation on my behalf. Per your statement at FYI discussion it is not a fringe case: "No they are not. Both Bio and Fyi are oriented towards entertainment programming, it is a mere reformatting, and these things happen all the time. Only in truly exceptional cases have such reformatings been treated as so indifferent that they are considered to be separate channels for the purposes of Wikipedia."
But mostly likely per sources Disney Channel CA-FR is taking over the license of Teletoon Retro French. Teletoon are children's entertainment as is Disney Channel, just moving from classic cartoons to new programming. So what are you opposing? Both or just the merger. If you are so unsure about Disney Channel Canada is or is not taking over a license then it should be incubated in either draft space or in Corus Entertainment article then handled appropriately. Disney La Chaîne is basically already cover in Disney Channel CA. Spshu (talk) 14:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You're literally using my dated statements as an all or nothing scenario that must apply. What I say does not indicate a site-wide consensus, only the consensus of a single user. ViperSnake151  Talk  15:45, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
User:ViperSnake151, you are that single user and we are asking you to explain your position in regards to the apparent inconsistency between your stances here and there. Why do you refuse to do so? Mdrnpndr (talk) 17:51, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus can change. This "rebranding" involves the replacement of a original brand with a licensed programming source—a kind of scenario that rarely occurs in the United States. Again, you are also only calling for the merger with Teletoon Retro French because we know it's going to be a re-branding, thus using the FYI "consensus" and contradicting how the DC Canada English channel article is being treated, because it is being covered autonomously for the sake of encyclopedic clarity. I also continue to oppose Spshu's continued appraisal of cartt.ca as a "personal professional blog". It is not formatted as a blog at all; Google Search caches are an easy way to breach such paywalls. ViperSnake151  Talk  18:57, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I am not calling for the merger with TTRF, I called for merger with Disney Channel (Canada). I just gave it as a secondary option that I thought you would like and approve. No you are just running away from your statement and disavowing your previous statements. I am sorry that you don't like the facts about cartt.ca but that is the facts. That website is run by one person (personal) who has a journalistic background and/or degree (professional) and blog. As a format — repeated again for extra emphasis — as a format, a blog means latest entry on top (so most news sites would qualify under format). As that is how the first "web log" or "blog" was hand written html code. Blog as a website means that it its personal, so it just duplicate to get you to think and to clarify it isn't a blog at a news site with editorial controls or a news site that uses a blogging software. Instead you just blow up at at the best factual appraisal of the website one can make with looking at the about page at the site. Spshu (talk) 23:30, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose merger with Télétoon Rétro as this channel has nothing in common with that one other than the technicalities of common ownership and broadcast space; it shares neither the branding (to any extent), nor the programming, nor the target audience, nor even the country of (most?) content origination (as previously mentioned by another user). Note that this opinion does not necessarily transfer to other merger proposals. Mdrnpndr (talk) 19:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this is what I was getting at. If Teletoon Retro were turned into Boomerang, that wouldn't be enough of a change to justify a new article because it would simply be the same concept under a different name. But this is a little different. ViperSnake151  Talk  21:26, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Those technicalities are the reason ViperSnake pushed forward with Bio & FYI as they did not have the same branding and not keeping the same programming. This is still children's to children's programming. This isn't different as we were looking at larger changes from Biography to FYI.
Second, the original proposal was to merge Disney La Chaîne (DLC) with Disney Channel Canada (DCC), Télétoon Rétro was placed in the mix based on ViperSnake's supposed "knowledgeable" statements (now revealed as questionable) made at the BIO/FYI switch over merger discussion. So, please correct your vote according to the original proposal (approve/merge: DLC into DCC, Merge alternative: DlC into TTRF, oppose) to help the closing administrator. Spshu (talk) 23:30, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Lemme outline my opinions in list form:

  • Merge Disney Channel (Canada) into article of whatever it replaces - Oppose: Firstly, as I said, the existence of the network itself was announced before details surfaced or were announced on how would be distributed, so the page was developed from the start to be a standalone page. Thus, it would, in my opinion, be a waste of effort to merge this back into Teletoon Retro-FR's article. The FYI scenario was different because we were told from the start it was going to replace Biography Channel, so it made more sense to cover it from within.
  • Merge Disney Channel (English Canada) into Disney Channel (French Canada) - Oppose: They are legally and technically different channels. And again, we already made an article, so we might as well use it.

ViperSnake151  Talk  23:49, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose merger with Disney Channel (Canada), but not at all on the grounds the other user pointed out. Rather, as we have seen with Teletoon and Télétoon, it is likely that the schedules will differ, and we will therefore need separate programming lists anyways; it's best to keep two main articles for these rather than make a separate "List of" article later on. Additionally, the history of the channels is distinct to some extent, as one is directly replacing Télétoon Rétro while the other has not been announced as directly replacing Teletoon Retro. I should add, as a separate note to User:ViperSnake151 in particular, that we need to treat these articles consistency or risk causing these types of edit wars, and that exceedingly weak arguments (such as the one regarding the status quo) are counterproductive in this regard, as are wildly inconsistent stances between analogous cases like these. Mdrnpndr (talk) 12:43, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose strongly. For one thing, Teletoon Retro to Disney la chaine is completely different as one is focused on programming from Nicktoons and Cartoon Network and historical cartoons. While Disney la Chaine is focused on Disney style programming as in Live Action and will only keep the cartoons until November when Disney XD and Disney Junior will rebrand. Also these are talking about two completely different channels. I was looking at the schedule for the French Canada version today, And it had programming from YTV, like Just Kidding and also Ma gardienne est un vampire (My babysitter's a vampire) and shows from Disney XD like Les bio-teens (Lab Rats). They even have a lot of the programming from Disney Junior. I can safely tell they are having a Disney Junior on Disney Channel and a Disney XD on Disney Channel block. In fact the French Canadian version starts off with the Disney Junior on Disney Channel block. The English version I can't really tell the schedule, But I think it will also have a lot of differences to the French version like different Canadian shows to fit the Canadian schedule. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Likeablejake (talk • contribs) 22:51, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Your reasoning, Likeablejake, seems to oppose the alternative proposal of Disney la chaine and Teletoon Retro FR instead of addressing the original proposal of the French and English language version of the Disney Channel merging. Not sure how the Canadian English is going to vary from the French version based on the "Canadian schedule" as they are both Canadian channels. Spshu (talk) 16:14, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, I don't think that the English and French fourms should be together either, They are both different channels offered in different packs. The French version will be more likely in the main pack while the English version will be in the Kids pack. Even so, The two channels are different languages, meaning different Canadian and Disney content on them. The newer shows will not be playing on the French channel while the English channel won't be caring the same Canadian programming as the French channel. What I mean by that is, I don't think they will start airing "Just Kidding" and "My babysitter's a vampire" on Disney channel because My babysitters a Vampire has already aired and Just Kidding is airing on YTV. So I think it will be different Canadian content and the Twitter page even confirmed they were making Canadian Disney like content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Likeablejake (talk
Disney has a Disney Channel in France since 1997 (and XD since 2009 & Jr. since 2011), so plenty of programming will be available in French. So, the assumption that the French Channel will have huge differences in programming is not necessarily true. How hard would to say that they were offered in different packages (if that is the case; it should not take more than a sentence in a shared article. Two articles for the unwillingness to write a single sentence? Programming, how hard is it to set up a table indicating which program is on which version -- it isn't hard at all. Spshu (talk) 13:57, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
But, You also got to look at Belgium. They have that one in two different fourms. One for the Dutch and one for French. So, Tell me, Why should we put it all in one fourm, When it is all going to be different programming while also in different languages? They also have different release dates on everything. Canada's French dubs are going to be the first released in the world now. For example, Descendants is going to have it's world premiere at the end of the month. While in English, It's already been out for almost a month now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Likeablejake (talk
  • Strongly Oppose This shouldn't even be an issue. One is french, the other is english, one is a standalone channel, the other is a multiplex of a premium service. How about no?

MarcoPolo250 (talk) 13:36, 1 September 2015 (UTC)MarcoPolo250[reply]

This should not be an issue as their details are not that dissimilar as to have their own articles, but some have made it an issue. The Disney Channel and Disney La Chaîne are related and not premium services (to my knowledge), so no neither stand alone just alternative language versions. It is the language equivalent of a timeshift channel. Spshu (talk) 15:19, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 September 2015

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Bring from Future tense into present tense i.e is a channel and launched in opening wording Thanks Simchamichael (talk) 12:26, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Already done —Skyllfully (talk | contribs) 06:22, 6 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 September 2015

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Remove the last four shows because they are sourced to Twitter and TV Guide, which isn't reliable. Corus should release a press release soon that lists all the programs that will air. 2600:1003:B114:C962:E609:ECA:A713:F660 (talk) 12:55, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: they are currently sourced to reliable sources. —Skyllfully (talk | contribs) 06:24, 6 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Disney Channel on Rogers

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According to their unfinished website, Disney Channel will be on Rogers starting September 3.[1] Right now, Cartoon Network is broadcasting in Teletoon Retro's slot in my area (Ontario), and I hope it stays that way. MarcoPolo250 (talk) 13:36, 1 September 2015 (UTC)MarcoPolo250[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2015

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Change Bell Fibe Channel From 1658 To 1568 69.159.111.8 (talk) 00:04, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done but please remember to provide reliable sources in the future, to make it easier for editors. In this case I did a Google search and found this. —Skyllfully (talk | contribs) 06:18, 6 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Refs used in comments

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  1. ^ http://www.disneychannel.ca/blog/where-find-disney-channel

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2015

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Add Best Friends Whenever, Dog with a Blog, and I Didn't Do It to Current programming. Source: http://www.corusent.com/home/Corporate/PressReleases/tabid/1697/Default.aspx?Id=3080 2600:1003:B10C:99FA:339C:4995:289B:A0C8 (talk) 23:03, 9 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done JustBerry (talk) 22:33, 10 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Background

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Background is a form of "history", a pre-history if you will. In this case, why there was not a Disney Channel before. History can cover the time from formation, ie. getting licenses, contract/agreement, etc. to operations. How do you think that between September 1988 and 2015 did the Canadian Disney Channel exist? Since you want to have that under history section instead of a Background section. --Spshu (talk) 13:44, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing shows

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Stop adding show that are from TV guide like schedules. TV Guides are not considered appropriate sourcing for WP. Spshu (talk) 15:09, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Move discussion in progress

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