Talk:Holy day of obligation

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on June 29, 2006 and June 29, 2007.

Sabbath

Which day is the Sabbath Day according to the Bible and the 4th Commandment? Why do we Christians not follow the right day "Saturday" instead of "Sunday"

The Jewish faith would answer Saturday is the Sabbath, as would 7th Day Adventists. Christians moved the sabbath to Sunday as it is the Day of the Resurrection, and the day the early Christians gathered to celebrate the Lord's Supper aka Eucharist (to give thanks). All that the book of Exodus says is to keep Holy the Sabbath, but never details which day of the 7 is the Sabbath.DaveTroy 15:50, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Colossians 2:16 says that Christians are no longer obligated to observe "sabbath days" any more than we are to refrain from eating pork. 66.32.123.84 21:01, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Collosians does NOT say that "you are no longer obligated to observe sabbath days". While Colossians 2:16 does state something about not being judged by what you eat, drink or when you worship, it says specifically "Let no MAN judge you..."

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

Meaning, don't be pressured or coerced by other men. This does not mean that you may disregard God's laws. God will most certainly judge you for following, or rather, not following, his laws. It's just that simple.

There are plenty of examples to be brought forth from the Bible. These are just a few:

Genesis 2:2 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."

Genesis 2:3 "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."

Matthew 28:1 "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."

Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Exodus 31:13 "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you."

Christians that don't observe the proper Sabbath, which is Saturday, are either brain-washed by their religion, or they are making a personal decision based on mis-information.129.54.8.46 16:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The original Sabbath day of Saturday commemorated God's rest after the Creation. Jesus rested in the tomb on Saturday, but Christians don't celebrate that, they celebrate His resurrection, on Sunday. It was God who chose Sunday as the Christian holy day. And after the Resurrection, God chose to have many other significant events occur on Sunday: Jesus appeared to His disciples on Sundays, Pentecost (the coming of the Holy Spirit, and the founding of the Church) was on a Sunday. Revelation 1:10 refers to Sunday as the "Lord's Day".207.112.24.28 (talk) 15:21, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To user 129.54.8.46 -- Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a code of religious conduct. Christians for centuries have disagreed about which day of the week should be considered the sabbath. The fact that, say, the Seventh Day Adventists observe Saturday does not cancel out the fact that the overwhelming majority of Christians observe Sunday. Which day anyone should observe is outside Wikipedia's purview. —OtherDave 15:35, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As a matter of fact, they did not disagree, but did agree in unison that the holiday to be kept by divine precept has been moved from Saturday to Sunday. As to the question "which day is the Sabbath?" the answer is, of course, dependent on what you mean by Sabbath. If you mean by "Sabbath" the day the Sabbath commandment (whose number is 3, as what you would call the second by calling it the fourth, is quite obviously an implemenation rule to the first) is to be obeyed now, a somewhat metaphorical modern anglophone habit, it is Sunday. If you mean the day of the week that was actually singled out by this same precept, it is, of course, Saturday, as still used by the Italians, Portuguese, Spaniards and, etymologically, also the French and the Southern Germans (the Northern Germany say Sunday Eve), which doesn't make them any problems in keeping the Sunday. --84.154.113.59 (talk) 11:02, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External source for obligations by country

May someone please give an external source to the country obligations? I'm having difficulty finding where such information comes from. Thank you. --24.79.216.175 02:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To which country's holy days of obligation? In some cases there will be no Internet source, only the publication of the original decision of the Bishops Conference duly confirmed by the Holy See, plus a mention in the country's annual "Ordo". Lima 05:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Basic Meaning of Day of Obligation

From the article: "The Code of Canon Law states: The faithful are obliged to [...] abstain from those works and affairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body."

The article would be well-suited by authoritative sources of how this grammar is interpreted in different cultures, times and sects. An example (not necessarily good, but illustrative):

"abstain from those works and affairs which: hinder the worship to be rendered to God; hinder the joy proper to the Lord’s day; or hinder the suitable relaxation of mind and body."

Minor changes in punctuation and emphasis can mean major differences in approach to obligation, prayer and observance. What is "suitable relaxation", in the context of this sentence, not per se. Some canon history about this would be good. --Marquess (talk) 15:26, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

St. Patrick's Day

What is the actual status of St Pat's in Ireland? It's listed here as an HDO, but it's not one of the ten listed at the top of the article. If it is an HDO in Ireland, that should be specifically commented on in the Ireland section.... /blahedo (t) 09:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is a holy day of obligation in Ireland, and has long been so. Admittedly, it is exceptional for a country to have as a holy day of obligation a feast that is not in the canon 1246 list; but I have difficulty in imagining what comment should be added to the Ireland section, which already states that Saint Patrick's Day is a holy day of obligation in Ireland and gives an Internet site that enables anyone who doubts it to check for himself. Lima 10:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

On second thoughts, I have added a comment, not under "Ireland", where I found it would be difficult, but under "Observance by country". Lima 10:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Transference to Sunday

I find the following paragraph confusing:

"Three of the ten feast days listed above are automatically transferred to a Sunday, if in a given country they are not holy days of obligation:

"The Epiphany is transferred to the Sunday that falls between 2 and 8 January;
"The Ascension of Our Lord is transferred to the following Sunday;
"The Body and Blood of Christ is transferred to the following Sunday."

It says to me that these three holy days were NOT of obligation and so were transferred to a Sunday. In the U.S. the Ascension was of obligation, but the other two were not, yet it was still transferred to a Sunday.

There is nothing automatic about the transference. Rather the national bishops' conference has to request from the Holy See that the feast be transferred.68.65.122.80 14:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a paragraph the explains this situation.68.65.122.80 15:17, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for drawing attention to the need for clearer expression. The General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar, printed, for instance, in the Roman Missal, state (in the present ICEL translation):

7. In those places where the solemnities of Epiphany, Ascension, and Corpus Christi are not observed as holydays of obligation, they are assigned to a Sunday, which is then considered their proper day in the calendar. Thus:

a. Epiphany, to the Sunday falling between 2 January and 8 January;

b. Ascension, to the Seventh Sunday of Easter;

c. the solemnity of Corpus Christi, to the Sunday after Trinity Sunday.

The Missal indicates the same on the page where it gives the texts of the Mass on each of these three feasts, e.g.:

Epiphany is celebrated on January 6 where it is a holyday of obligation; elsewhere it is celebrated on the Sunday between January 2 and January 8.

When the French Episcopal Conference decided not to have Epiphany as a holyday of obligation, but wished to keep the celebration on 6 January, they had to get the approval of the Holy See for that decision. Lima 15:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Code of Canons for the Eastern Churchres

Um. I'm not sure if you realise this, but the CCEO has no juridical standing in the Eastern Catholic Churches. InfernoXV 10:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Confusion, I think, between the Code of Canon Law, which "concerns only the Latin Church" (canon 1 of that Code) and the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, which "concerns all the Eastern Catholic Churches and only them, unless, it is expressly stated otherwise in connection with relations with the Latin Church" (canon 1 of that Code). For what other than the Eastern Catholic Churches could the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches have juridical standing? Lima 10:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No confusion there actually. What happened was Rome decided one day to plonk a document on the table, saying to the Eastern Churches, 'hello chaps, here's a unified code of canon law for all of you'. Nobody asked Rome to do this, as none of us consider it within Rome's rights to make canon law for us. Basically what then happened next was that our bishops and patriarchs took the book, told Rome 'thank you very much for this', put the book on the shelf, and continued life as before. We have our own canons, based on our traditions and spirituality, and the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches reflects a markedly different style of thinking. We have multiple rites, with several different ways of doing things - the CCEO attempts to cover us all, which is impossible. This is why the CCEO has no official standing in our Churches. The matter of holy days of obligation is an obvious example of latinisation - the concept of an obligation to attend church is foreign to us. InfernoXV 13:56, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard few positive comments from within the Eastern Catholic Churches concerning the CCEO. Without going into details, I'll just say that it's both criticized and ignored. Majoreditor 14:42, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eleven Holy Days of Obligation - why?

I take the ten ones already in this article and I add Easter because : "Can. 1246 §1. Sunday, on which by apostolic tradition the paschal mystery is celebrated, must be observed in the universal Church as the primordial holy day of obligation. So, you have eleven ones and so I'm in conformity with cited and quoted source. --Dorajor (talk) 19:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)Dorajor[reply]

The Code of Canon Law does not say: "Easter Sunday, on which by apostolic tradition tradition the paschal mystery is celebrated ..." It says: "Sunday, on which ..." There are 52, sometimes 53, Sundays in the year. On each of them "the paschal mystery is celebrated". The article correctly says "ten days apart from Sundays". Easter is a Sunday. Lima (talk) 19:53, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well - technically maybe. An example for the technicality of this: In Germany both Sundays and HDOs (and Labor Day and the National Holiday) are free from work (by state law; the Episcopal Conference has taken away the obligation from the others), and whoever legally does work (under state law), gets a percentage of extra wages (by collective bargaining). So far so good. A specific collective bargaining prescribed a percentage of 200% extra for holidays, and some 50%, I think, for Sundays. Now the High Court for Working Affairs has recently produced the, with all due respect, absurd decision that Easter Sunday was a Sunday with 50%, while Easter Monday throughout the country is an undisputed holiday on 200%. --84.154.113.59 (talk) 11:23, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hungary

Won't Hungary also have an "extra" HDO on St. Stephen the King, August 20th, which is a public holiday and a probably a sollemnity or feast at least (it is a memorial even in the general calendar)? --84.154.75.118 (talk) 16:27, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As you know, there are many solemnities that are not holy days of obligation, and there are many public holidays that are not holy days of obligation. In Ireland, 1 January is a public holiday and a liturgical solemnity, but it is not a holy day of obligation; and 6 January is not a public holiday, but it is a holy day of obligation. Esoglou (talk) 20:05, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

To explain my question: I'm German. That explains it. - I know there are sollemnities that are not of obligation. I do know that there are public holidays not of obligation, but I would never feel about them as many. (We have German Unity and Labor Day and that's it. And Labor Day is, though yes, not of obligation, the memorial and former feast of St. Joseph the Labourer, and in Bavaria also the solemnity of the Blessed Virgin as patroness.) I can't help to feel it somewhat odd to have a sollemnity on a public holiday without any obligation, as you say about Ireland. Whereas I like by the way that the Irish have the courage to leave to such a high feast as Epiphany its obligation even "against the state". (Imagine that the Magi are enshrined in Cologne, Northrhine-Westphalia, and see their sollemnity transferred to the Sunday and, what follows logically, somewhat forgotten!) Thus I know St. Stephen the King is a public holiday and I figure a sollemnity, and the very origin of the public holiday is exactly the religious content of the sollemnity in question. From which I can't help to conclude: it must be of obligation. --84.154.91.193 (talk) 16:39, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Holy Day of Obligation → Holy day of obligation – This name is lowercase in almost all sources google books search. For example:

New commentary on the Code of Canon Law, Paulist Press, 2002
Encyclopedia of the Middle Ages, Volumen 2, Routledge, 2000
Merriam-Webster's collegiate dictionary

--Enric Naval (talk) 15:10, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support. One could add the Code of Canon Law, quoted in the article. Esoglou (talk) 21:08, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support This term is not a proper noun and there is no reason to capitalize it. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:39, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above In ictu oculi (talk) 14:32, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 08 June 2014

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 09:15, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Holy day of obligation → Holy day of obligation in Roman Catholic Church – Holy day of obligation does not look like something related to Roman Catholic Church only. As the article (correctly?) deals to the ones relaterd to Roman Catholic Church, a specification is need in the tile. (This is not a disambiguation, because this is not another meaning) 109.54.26.200 (talk) 10:45, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. There is no such thing as a non-Catholic holy day of obligation. Esoglou (talk) 19:22, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. It's a Roman Catholic term. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:59, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ditto - yeah, it pretty much is just them who do this. Red Slash 23:55, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Finland

Whoever listed Finland needs to insert the Holy Days of Obligation imposed by the bishop's copnference there. Many other countries are not listed because nobody has taken the tim to find the holy days there. It would make more sense to remove the name Finland if nobody will insert the holy days as opposed to adding all the countries missing holy day lists on the page. Taram (talk) 04:48, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

To assist that editor, I have added the required information. Esoglou (talk) 14:02, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank youTaram (talk) 01:06, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is unfortunate that my doing so has encouraged the editor to repeat again and again. It is better to discourage it. Esoglou (talk) 07:56, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Italy, local holidays?

Is the local holiday which, as far as I know, may be chosen by the province or left to communes, etc. (South Tyrol has Pentecost Monday, to match their Austrian-Tyrolean neighbors, etc.) and which very frequently is religious in nature, local patron saint and so forth, a holiday of obligation? --131.159.0.47 (talk) 22:28, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Holy day of obligation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080220062727/http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM to http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:02, 4 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Holy day of obligation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:48, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Better layout

The article is exploding and rather inconsistent in its terminology. What about making it into a table? I would follow the model of the article Multi-speed Europe. So it would look like this, with “x” meaning “always a holy day of obligation”, “c” (or another letter) meaning “sometimes a holy day of obligation, it depends”, and “o” meaning “never a holy day of obligation”. A “notes” section could also be added to further clarify the content (e.g. extra holidays apart from the ones listed, holidays transferred to a Sunday if it falls on a Saturday or a Monday, etc.

What do you think?

Bishops' conference	Mary Mother of God	Epiphany	Saint Joseph	Ascension	Corpus Christi	Saints Peter and Paul	Assumption	All Saints	Immaculate Conception	Christmas
Austria	x	x	o	x	x	o	x	x	x	x
England and Wales	o	x	o	x	o	x	x	x	o	x
France	o	o	o	x	o	o	x	x	o	x
Germany	x	c	o	x	c	o	c	c	o	x
Bishops' conference	Mary Mother of God	Epiphany	Saint Joseph	Ascension	Corpus Christi	Saints Peter and Paul	Assumption	All Saints	Immaculate Conception	Christmas

De wafelenbak (talk) 22:01, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]