Talk:Lasallian educational institutions

Earlier posts

Iona College is run by the Irish Christian Brothers, not the De La Salle Brothers, so I removed this link from the page.

Merging from disambiguation pages

Several of the schools listed in the Lasallian universities and colleges Lasallian educational institutions article are also included in a number of disambiguation pages, such as La Salle, De La Salle, De La Salle College, De La Salle High School and La Salle High School. Maintaining all these separate listings is making consistent editing problematic, since updates to one list must often be replicated onto the others. I would propose keeping a single exhaustive up-to-date listing at the Lasallian universities and colleges Lasallian educational institutions article, and leave the disambiguation pages with only a link to this article. Any schools named "La Salle" or "De La Salle" which are not affiliated with the Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools would also be left at the respective disambiguation page. Ayla 18:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I have nominated Category:Lasallian universities and colleges for renaming to Category:Lasallian educational institutions (see the discussion). If the nomination is successful, this article should also be renamed to Lasallian educational institutions in order to be more comprehensive and include Lasallian primary schools, high schools, and so forth. Ayla 17:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I am effecting the merge. If anyone should come across any educational institutions in the list which are not affiliated with the Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools (i.e. are not "Lasallian"), please go ahead and remove them. Ayla 22:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think having a single list of similarly named institutions is very helpful for disambiguation. I'm not opposed to having such a list, but it is not an adequate substitute for disambiguation pages. older ≠ wiser 15:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Cretin-Derham Hall

I believe Cretin-Derham Hall High School in St Paul, Minnesota, is a DeLasallian school. In fact, I'm almost positive, but i cant find definitive proof. If someone went there or knows for sure, you should add it. Also, the list for US schools is quite long. It may be prudent to split it into regions or states, especially as more schools are added. Chaztheweird 01:02, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

You're right - "Cretin-Derham Hall is a Catholic co-educational high school, co-sponsored by the Brothers of the Christian Schools and the Sisters of St. Joseph of Carondelet." I also agree about splitting the US schools by state - I would avoid using headings though. Ayla 12:28, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Christian Brothers Academy in Syracuse, NY is omitted from the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.238.94.9 (talk) 21:36, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved.  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 23:50, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

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Lasallian educational institutions → La Sallian educational institutions — The spelling of the title of this article is incorrect. The correct name is "La Sallian", with a capital "S" and a space before it. A successful move with a similar reason has just been completed at Talk:Jean-Baptiste_de_La_Salle#Requested_move. S Masters (talk) 07:38, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Thank you! -- S Masters (talk) 04:50, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Why not La Sallian Schools? Ceoil (talk) 19:02, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Because it includes universities, colleges, etc. You can create a redirect page for schools to here. The point is to change it from "Lasallian" to "La Sallian". - S Masters (talk) 22:41, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

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Lasallian

The Order uses "Lasallian" in adjectival use, not "La Sallian", let alone "LaSallian". The article was recently renamed from "Lasallian ..." to "La Sallian ..."; this needs to be reverted. Pol098 (talk) 14:41, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Done. (If unclear: this article was for a short time renamed "La Sallian educational institutions".) Pol098 (talk) 15:22, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Child sexual abuse - which Christian Brothers?

The Lasallian Brothers and another order are both often referred to as "the Christian Brothers", causing confusion. There have been abuse cases relating to both orders. A recent edit, since reverted, deleted text from this article saying "this report cites a case that is NOT this order but another order all together; similar names not the same order. Please correct this libel.".

The references are clear, and refer by name to the de La Salle order; for example the Northern Ireland Historical Institutional Abuse Inquiry's Module 3 is solely about "De La Salle Boys Home - Rubane House", and the related chapter 11 of its report refers several times to "the [La Salle] Order's failings"[1]. If this is disputed, detail of the exact reference stated not to refer to the Lasallians, etc. needs to be provided. Pol098 (talk) 13:23, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Numbers

The numbers of institutions, brothers, countries, etc. stated in the article are sometimes changed without any source being cited. It may well be that the numbers in the article (as of 16 May 2021)—which are supported by a current Lasallian source—are wrong or out of date, and if so they should be corrected, but citing a reliable source. If conflicting figures are reported by reliable current sources, it might be best to include them all to avoid continual changing by different editors. E.g., "over 1,000^[1] or 1,100^[2] institutes are reported". Pol098 (talk) 23:07, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Removal of source references

A lot of source references have recently been deleted, with edit summary Per WP:ELNO, removing external links. Not a repository. I'm dubious about this, but it is a matter for consensus. WP:ELNO has several reasons not to include links; the one that could be considered relevant is 14: Lists of links to manufacturers, suppliers, or customers.

The article had a lot of bare links, and some using the appropriate <ref>...</ref> form.

Examples:

Bare link after entry:
*Collège Charles Lwanga, in [[Nouna]] [http://charleslwanga.unblog.fr/histoire-du-college]

Link and text in square brackets:
* [http://www.smklasallepj.org/ La Salle School, Petaling Jaya]

Link in approved format:
*Christian Brothers School, in [[New Orleans]]<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.cbs-no.org/ |title=In the Dominican and Lasallian Traditions|website=Christian Brothers School, New Orleans|access-date= 19 September 2017}}</ref>

I think that the links are needed. For example, a line like
"Collège Charles Lwanga, in Nouna"
asserts that there is an institution of that name in that place, and implicitly that is Lasallian. That is a statement that needs a source; otherwise the article could be filled with things like
Hogwarts College, Middleshire, England

In principle every entry should have a source in <ref>...</ref> form, but what there was was better than nothing, and much better than what has remained, sourceless. If we don't want to make this article a repository we should delete all establishments listed in it (except a very few to illustrate the topic), not list them without source.

I have reverted the batch of changes including the deletion of sources. It wasn't possible to revert only the deletion, leaving the remaining changes in place (which I haven't checked in detail).

Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 14:41, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Pol098, I understand the concern about lack of sources. If I accidentally removed one or two links that were legitimate, please feel free to add them back. But most (or all?) of the links I removed were to the homepage (or archive of a homepage) for each location. That kind of primary source is spammy and unnecessary. It violates not just WP:ELNO but the spirit of these kinds of lists in general. – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 17:27, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

A link to the homepage of an institution is at least a source confirming that it exists and is Lasaalian, which is all that's required for the [basically list of] Lasallian educational institutions article. Otherwise anything can be added. This isn't an issue for personal opinion, it's Wikipedia's way of working. The best thing is to wait in the hope that others will express their opinion, and revert if it's felt that the links are required. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 18:43, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Pol098, I don't think that a site's homepage should be the preferred source, but I can understand an argument to use it in lieu of something better. But again, from WP:ELLIST, et al, those should be included as citations rather than raw links embedded within the article text. The original links are visible in the edit history; if you'd like to add some of those back as references, I won't revert or delete.

But, I'd also argue that, even as a primary source, a better place to reference might be from the La Salle website itself. For example, this page shows chapters around the world; this one shows districts within North America. Those districts then list the schools included in its program. This one for example shows all of the high schools in the Eastern North America district. I think these would be better sources than the homepages of individual schools. Thoughts? – Broccoli & Coffee ^{(Oh hai)} 23:42, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

The existing links could certainly be improved, but simply removing them leaves much of the article unsourced, and consequently liable for deletion. An imperfect link is better than no link; most of the links did confirm the existence and LaSalle-ness of institutions.

Quoting WP:UNSOURCED: All content must be verifiable ... by providing an inline citation to a reliable source ... Any material lacking an inline citation ... may be removed. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 12:40, 21 July 2021 (UTC)