Talk:List of catgirls and catboys

Should the caption for the Wikipe-tan image link to a page in the Wikipedia: namespace?

Wikipe-tan doesn't have a mainspace article but there is Wikipedia:Wikipe-tan which currently the caption links to. Is it proper for a mainspace article to link to that (outside hatnotes where appropriate)? Or should the link be removed? CharredShorthand (talk) 17:25, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

I honestly have no issue with the link, as people may want to know who Wikipe-tan is. Historyday01 (talk) 19:13, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

It's not a huge issue, really. We generally try to avoid self-reference but that's not a rule we can't occasionally break. Elli (talk | contribs) 19:16, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

That's my thinking as well. I added that caption in, as it seemed that people might want to know who Wikipe-tan is. Historyday01 (talk) 22:29, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

maia arson crimew?

it should really be mentioned as a high profile catgirl tbh.. maybe in a really life section? Apyrrypa (talk) 15:50, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

i was surprised that maia isnt in this article, i think the addition of a real life section would make sense as long as we restrict it to high profile real life catgirls (i guess basically catgirls that already have their own wikipedia article?) Catgirl-su (talk) 16:59, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

so like maia arson crimew? :3 — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 17:13, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

yes, maia would meet this criterium Catgirl-su (talk) 17:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

It would be a change in scope for this article, since currently the lead explicitly excludes "humans dressed in cat costumes," and that's the only kind of catperson who exists in reality. More importantly, I'd be surprised if sources could be found to support such a description. Our article about crimew doesn't describe her as a catgirl, and a quick google search for "maia arson crimew" and "catgirl" yielded a bunch of social media posts but no serious sources. Squeakachu (talk) 17:31, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

would her own website be considered a serious source? Catgirl-su (talk) 17:34, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

It would certainly support a note in her article that she describes herself as a kitten, and indeed I see that we do include that, though it's sourced to her twitter bio rather than her personal site (speaking of her site, I spent way too long playing with that cat that chases the cursor, and it took me way too long to get the joke: a cat chasing a mouse). I don't think it can support calling her a catgirl in Wikipedia's voice. It reminds me of Elon Musk wanting to be called a "business magnet." Squeakachu (talk) 17:58, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

With maia's twitter down as a source, a lot of its original self description is down, but even multiple websites she runs (https://maia.crimew.gay/,https://crimew.gay/maia) currently self-describe as a kitten, and there are tumblr posts (https://www.tumblr.com/nyancrimew/708384774142705664/to-contrast-against-the-rude-anon-i-would-like-to) where she describes that way as well. Her twitter bio as of last archive before suspension (https://web.archive.org/web/20230219003356/https://twitter.com/_nyancrimew) used the theta delta signs (θΔ), which are commonly accepted (https://slang.net/meaning/%CE%98%CE%94, https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/y4jy01/whats_up_with_this_%CE%B8%CE%B4_theta_delta_symbol_im/) used to mean Therian/Otherkin.

Given this, it's reasonable to believe that maia in good faith identifies as a kitten and not a human, which I believe Wikipedia should support. 2603:8001:34F0:8FF0:9C2E:6C6A:6C8E:321E (talk) 19:17, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

A couple of problems. First, kitten and catgirl are not the same. Second, per WP:ABOUTSELF self-published sources are usable for claims about themselves if "the material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim." Claiming to be a cat instead of a human (or maybe both at once? I'm not that well versed on otherkin), is absolutely an exceptional claim for which strong, independent sourcing is needed. Think of it like an article about a religious leader who claims to be a reincarnation of (insert religious figure here).

"x believes they are the reincarnation of y"

vs

"x is the reincarnation of y"

To include the belief seems appropriate to me, to state that belief as true in Wikipedia's voice does not. Squeakachu (talk) 18:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

This is a list of fictional characters. Including real people who identify as cats is an increase of scope. Not necessarily opposing this but it is an important distinction. Elli (talk | contribs) 15:49, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Maia Arson Crimew

t asked why she wasnt on here on it's tumblr,should we add her? 2600:1004:B009:7471:3D99:CDA6:967D:B812 (talk) 15:51, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Rename to "List of Catpeople"?

I'm not sure why this article isn't just called "List of Catpeople" or "List of kemonomimi characters", following the suggestion by @Mwalimu59 above - especially if we are considering adding maia, who is nonbinary, it'd make sense to not tie our article title to gender, as the title has already been changed because "List of Catgirls" was too limited. I think we should change the title once more to something which cannot become outdated so easily and then be done with it. Athko (talk) 01:43, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

@Athko sounds like a great idea Apyrrypa (talk) 14:36, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

"catpeople" is not anywhere near as frequently used as "catgirls" or "catboys" and not a good title here. "kemonomimi characters" is probably better. Elli (talk | contribs) 15:48, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

It may not be used as frequently, but it's easier to infer the meaning of "Catpeople" than "kemonomimi" for anyone uninitiated. Seems like a better title. Macram1 (talk) 01:38, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

The only problem is that some people don't know what "kemonomimi" is Historyday01 (talk) 03:06, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Fair point, I didn't consider that. I don't think it should be too much of a problem though, as long as a redirect is left from the current title, and maybe having a brief explanation of the term or an internal link to kemonomimi in the lead. Squeakachu (talk) 17:17, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps that could work. It would be better than renaming it "List of catpeople". I mean, who even uses the word "cat people" anyhow? It just sounds very awkward. Historyday01 (talk) 20:11, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Historyday01 I would argue that everyone who understands the terms "catgirl" and "catboy" would understand the term "catpeople" so it's appropriate as long as the article still redirects from the others. the voice of Wikipedia is technical and doesn't need to be just the most common term Apyrrypa (talk) 12:08, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@Apyrrypa Perhaps, but I still think going with a common name is better than not doing so. Historyday01 (talk) 14:19, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

as a non binary individual who often dwells in these subcultures, catpeople is way more often used by me and my peers than kemonomimi. I wholly approve "list of catpeople" over "list of kenonomimi characters" 2804:D55:4624:FC00:3917:FED7:FB38:CBF6 (talk) 13:18, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

That title change is again a change of scope, as it would include characters with animal features other than cats. Also, I think kemonomimi characters are supposed to actually have animal ears etc., not just animal themed accessories/costumes, and so might exclude characters like Dejiko. Having said that, I expect those issues can be worked out, and "List of kemonomimi characters" avoids the issue of an unnecessarily gendered title, so I think I'm for it. Squeakachu (talk) 18:09, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Maybe, but people don't know what "kemonomimi" are, however. Historyday01 (talk) 03:06, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree with moving away from the gendered title; just wanted to chime in to say that, of the Japanese-language alternatives, the term "nekomimi" would be more appropriate than "kemonomimi" since it specifies a cat theme. Basswim (talk) 20:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

What I said before is still valid here. Although I said earlier that I opposed "List of catpeople", I would much prefer that to "List of nekomimi" or "List of kemonomimi." I don't think enough people would know those Japanese-language alternatives for it to be used. Historyday01 (talk) 13:24, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

"Catpeople" or "nekomimi" would be correct if the intention is to stick with the current scope of the article, which is to include only catboys and catgirls. The suggestion to use "kemonomimi" would be in tandem with expanding the scope of the article to include other animal phenotypes, since as far as I know there aren't similar Wikipedia articles for fox girls, wolf girls, etc. One possible issue with either 'nekomimi' or 'kemonomimi' is that since these are Japanese terms, it might imply that the article should be limited in scope to characters from otaku culture and thus give rise to arguments about including characters such as Catwoman from the Batman franchise. mwalimu59 (talk) 18:46, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

I would only support this if there is evidence showing that "catpeople" is more commonly used more than "kemonomimi" or "catgirls"/"catboys", building off what Elli is saying. So, I'm not fully convinced on the title change. I will say that the change to the current name was done boldly by @User:ADifferentMan, without any discussion, which really rubs me the wrong way and is arguably unethical, especially for a page with lots of people recently viewing it. So, in that sense, I am glad this discussion is happening.Historyday01 (talk) 03:13, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Cat Noir

I think Cat Noir from the show Miraculous Ladybug fits the description for this article and should be included under the "animation" category. 2601:14B:4680:F0:9CDF:F4A6:854D:CCDC (talk) 16:01, 15 April 2023 (UTC)