Talk:List of oldest living state leaders
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Unproven possibilities and future additions
[edit]There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):
Name | State | Position | Birth | note |
---|---|---|---|---|
Possibly dead, but potential additions if a recent source can be found | ||||
Emmanuel Bruny | Haiti | Executive Government Council (1957) | 1915 | |
J.L. Malhautra | Sikkim | Acting Political Officer (1964) | 1915 | Unlikely position qualifies |
Feliciano Avelar | El Salvador | Member of the Civic-Military Directory (1961-1962) | 1919 | Could this be him? [1] ; Obviously not, as there are sources of him being alive in 1965 |
Avtar Singh | Sikkim | Political Officer (1964-1966) | 18 October 1921 | Unlikely position qualifies; possibly died in 2015 [2] common name/surname combination though |
Ricardo Falla Cáceres | El Salvador | Junta of Government (1960-1961) | 1921 | Spanish wiki [3] and some other sources [4] [5] claim 1929-1990 |
Jaime Florentino Mendieta Vargas | Bolivia | Junta of Commanders of the Armed Forces (1971) | 1922 | Possibly 1926-2000? |
Marino Vagnetti | San Marino | Captain Regent (1971-1972, 1989) | 1924 | |
Ahmad al-Sayari | Yemen (Kingdom) | Prime Minister (1962) | 1924 | Unclear status/DoB list No citation, see discussion here |
Ri Kun-mo | DPR Korea | Premier (1986-1988) | 1926 | Likely deceased, see discussion here; [[6]] claims that he didn't die in 2001, but simply retired |
Emmanuel Bodjollé | Togo | Chairman of the Insurrection Committee (1963) | 1928 | Needs a better citation |
Michel Lévêque | Monaco | Minister of State (1997-2000) | 19 July 1933 | Needs a more recent citation (2010: [7]) |
Martin M'Bia | Congo (People's Republic of the) [a.k.a. Congo-Brazzaville] |
Member of the Military Committee (1977) | 1934 | Unclear status/DoB list Some sources indicate he might be dead: [8], [9] and [10] |
Óscar Pammo Rodríguez | Bolivia | Junta member (1981) | 1934 | Unclear status/DoB list Needs a more recent citation (2006: [11]) |
Édouard Frank | Central African Republic | Prime Minister (1991–1992) | 5 April 1934 | Needs a more recent citation (2014: [12]) |
Mohammed Ali Salim | Libya | Acting President (2012) | 1935 | Unclear DoB/status list; source needed |
- "None of the Soviet Republic Party Secretaries in this table were in power when their republics were recognized as independent states by other United Nations member states, or by the Commission of the European Economic Community, which should be the criterion for their inclusion in the main article table. Vaino Väljas is a special case, as he was still Party Chairman on August 20, 1991 (the day Estonia restored its independence); however, the Popular Front of Estonia had won the ESSR's republic elections on March 18, 1990, and were directing the government in Tallinn, not the republic's Communist Party." – Jwkozak91 (talk) 05:57, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
1. Good possibility of being alive (1926-1929, 1930 and later to be done): (U=3, A=0)
- Ambrose Patrick Genda, Sierra Leone, head of government, 1927, somebody with the same name died in London in 2001 (and in "Reinventing the Colonial State: Constitutionalism, One-party Rule, and Civil" (p. 138), it is claimed that he had lived in London) and German wiki claimed he died in 2015
- Asked about him on German Wiki, he died in 2002, the user told me that the source is "The Paradoxes of History and Memory in Post-Colonial Sierra Leone". I still won't cross him, as I can't preview the book, but I am 99% sure he is not alive anymore StjepanHR (talk) 15:11, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
- I agree he's very likely deceased, though I notice that the page reference given in the German article (p679) can't be right because the publisher only lists the book as having 332 pages! Curiously, Genda doesn't appear on List of heads of state of Sierra Leone at all - I don't know why, as others in 'office' for as little as a couple of days do appear. 217.155.59.206 (talk) 12:16, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
- Asked about him on German Wiki, he died in 2002, the user told me that the source is "The Paradoxes of History and Memory in Post-Colonial Sierra Leone". I still won't cross him, as I can't preview the book, but I am 99% sure he is not alive anymore StjepanHR (talk) 15:11, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
- Ri Kun-mo, North Korea, prime minister, 1926, published in 2004, chronology through 2001, now disputed. Died in 2001 according to Alexandre Mansourov.
- Emmanuel Bodjollé, Togo, committee, 1928
- "Historical Dictionary of Togo" (ed. 2021) refers to him as "retired". Is it enough to put him on the list? StjepanHR (talk) 03:38, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
– Adding to prevent further archiving – Jwkozak91 (talk) 08:24, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
- - and again, bot closed it TheCorriynial (talk) 15:27, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
Postponing archive Star Garnet (talk) 07:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Re-postponing archive TheCorriynial (talk) 23:29, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Preventing archiving. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 23:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Re-postponing archive TheCorriynial (talk) 22:45, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
As of this date I post this, the oldest living man is 112, born in 1912. But, you would think someone born in 1915 by now would have been noticed by a source like the GRG or Guinness World Records and hasn't. Maybe its time to remove the 1915 "class". TheCorriynial (talk) 16:52, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- I don't disagree, however I think the existing convention on Wikipedia (I'm sure someone's mentioned it before on this talk page) is to remove people on that basis specifically when they reach 110 (or would do if there were evidence of life). In these cases that cutoff would be reached in 2025; as that's only four months from now, it probably does no harm to leave them here until then. 2A02:8012:227B:0:7849:E3FD:3164:D7B7 (talk) 14:34, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
1935 births
[edit]I appreciate it may be a little too soon for this, but I've put together the following list of 1935 births, who will start to be eligible for inclusion in the article within a few months. To make sure I found as many as possible, I went through the articles on heads of state and heads of government for each state in turn. Of course I may nonetheless have missed some, so additions would be welcome. Any sources that can be found that's newer or better is also welcome.
Name | State | Position | Birth | Note/sources |
---|---|---|---|---|
Giovanni Lajolo | Vatican | President of the Governorate (2006–2011) | 3 January 1935 | Added to Unclear status list 12/6/24 |
António Ramalho Eanes | Portugal | President of the Revolutionary Council (1976–1982) President (1976–1986) |
25 January 1935 | [13] Added to main list on 12/6/24 |
Brian Mullooly | Ireland | Member of the Presidential Commission during vacancy (1997) | 21 February 1935 | Added to Unclear status list on 6/7/24 |
Artur Rasizade | Azerbaijan | Prime Minister (1996–2003, 2003–2018) | 26 February 1935 | [14] Added to main list on 6/7/24 |
Mohammed Basindawa | Yemen | Prime Minister (2011–2014) | 4 April 1935 | Added to main list on 25/8/24 |
Peter Hollingworth | Australia | Governor-General (2002–2003) | 10 April 1935 | [15] |
P. J. Patterson | Jamaica | Prime Minister (1992–2006) | [16] | |
Sharavyn Gungaadorj | Mongolian People's Republic | Prime Minister (1990) | 2 May 1935 | Needs a source, article does mention he runs a Agropro, maybe they have chair person list or have been in the news. |
Nemesi Marqués Oste | Andorra | Representative of the Episcopal Co-Prince (1993–2012) | 17 May 1935 | |
José Mujica | Uruguay | President (2010–2015) | 20 May 1935 | [17] He speaks a lot to press, newer sources could be used. |
Léon Kengo wa Dondo | Zaire | First State Commissioner (1982–1986, 1988–1990); Prime Minster (1994–1997) |
22 May 1935 | [18] |
Sultan Ali Keshtmand | Afghanistan (Democratic Republic of) | Prime Minister (1981–1988, 1989–1990) | 22 May 1935 | [19] |
Jim Bolger | New Zealand | Prime Minister (1990–1997) | 31 May 1935 | [20] |
Lee Hoi-chang | South Korea | Prime Minister (1993–1994) | 2 June 1935 | Needs source that mentions him not running for president. |
Rodrigo Borja Cevallos | Ecuador | President (1988–1992) | 19 June 1935 | [21] |
Tenzin Gyatso | Tibet | Ruler (1950–1959) Dalai Lama (1937–present) |
6 July 1935 | Unclear status list? [22] |
Leonel Mário d'Alva | São Tomé and Príncipe | Acting President (1991) | 22 July 1935[1] | |
Hifikepunye Pohamba | Namibia | President (2005–2015) | 18 August 1935 | [23] |
Abdou Diouf | Senegal | Prime Minister (1970–1980) President (1981–2000) |
7 September 1935 | [24] |
Henri Benoit de Coignac | Andorra | French Viguier (1982–1984) | 3 October 1935 | |
Daniel Williams | Grenada | Governor-General (1996–2008) | 4 November 1935 | [25] |
Young Vivian | Niue | Premier (1992–1993, 2002–2008) | 12 November 1935 | [26] Unclear status list |
Mahmoud Abbas | Palestine | President (2005–present) Prime Minister (2003) Chairman PLO (2004–present) |
15 November 1935 | |
Adnan Badran | Jordan | Prime Minister (2005) | 15 December 1935 | [28] |
Edward Schreyer | Canada | Governor General (1979–1984) | 21 December 1935 | [29] |
Salman | Saudi Arabia | King (2015–present) Prime Minister (2015–2022) |
31 December 1935 | [30] |
Al-Jazuli Daf'allah | Sudan | Prime Minister (1985–1986) | December 1935 | Unclear DoB list |
Mohammed Ali Salim | Libya | Acting President (2012) | 1935 | Unclear DoB/status list; source needed |
2A02:8012:227B:0:DDF6:42C0:DAA6:FD03 (talk) 12:50, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- I did some looking up of this as well, and I'll add the few missing I've found. And my list has sources, maybe I'll add them as well. TheCorriynial (talk) 15:57, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for adding sources and Sharavyn Gungaadorj, who I missed. I've removed Sir John Swan though as Bermuda isn't an sovereign state, but a British Overseas Territory. On a similar basis, I looked again at whether Young Vivian of Niue should be included. Political status of the Cook Islands and Niue seems quite clear that the island's status is akin to the Compact of Free Association states. 2A02:8012:227B:0:DDF6:42C0:DAA6:FD03 (talk) 17:00, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- In relation to Mahmoud Abbas, Palestine has been recognised by the UN since 2012, but his tenure goes back before that, so I was unsure precisely what description to use for him and whether/in what way the shift in status should be indicated in the table. That's why I put 'Unclear staus?' with a question mark - I was unclear about his specific title(s) as leader over time.
- I was similarly unsure about the Dalai Lama. He will almost certainly be in the 'Unclear status' table, but what to describe him as, and over what time period? I think what I've put in the table is simple and accurate, but it may not be. 2A02:8012:227B:0:8875:5FA5:E124:5FEB (talk) 14:12, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- José Mujica is from Uruguay, not from Paraguay Pindrice (talk) 22:55, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
- The claim of the Palestinian Territories (the only legal entity that exists under the Oslo Accords) to legal statehood is not recognised by most of the Big Five in the UN (UK, USA, France) and observer status at the UN is not actual membership. Those factors should weigh the most when considering where Abbas should go. 180.150.38.126 (talk) 14:52, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
Postponing archive Star Garnet (talk) 07:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Recovered tables from archiving bot.– Jwkozak91 (talk) 10:22, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Re-postponing archive TheCorriynial (talk) 23:29, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Preventing archiving. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 23:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Re-postponing archive TheCorriynial (talk) 22:45, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
Désiré Rakotoarijaona
[edit]Malagasy Wikipedia says he died in 2020, with the source being this. There are also videos seemingly connected to his funeral. However, you can also find two videos uploaded only this past May featuring a person claimed to be him. TVShowFan122 (talk) 19:45, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- Odd... feels like a Ri Kun-mo here. But, I think we would have seen something had he died in 2020. Can anyone confirm it with a Malagasy source? I also checked the deaths in 2020 (English one anyway), he wasn't listed there, and id think he would have been noted with all the leaders who died that year. TheCorriynial (talk) 20:47, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with what TheCorriynial said I just checked the article deaths in Deaths in January 2020 and I couldn't find his name there, the Malagasy Wiki states that he died on the 2nd of January 2020 but when I looked up for his name there I can't find It. 2001:FD8:1723:EF70:17DA:B26A:8F7B:F6C7 (talk) 13:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- I looked at the source, the issue with the death source is its listed as a site poster, so we can't confirm, unless the newer video can be proved its him. The source date in January 5th, 2020, so I went and checked that date, but he wasn't there either. TheCorriynial (talk) 14:18, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- I have also started looking for sources (ie: news articles) but I couldn't find any that says he died on the 2nd of January 2020. 2001:FD8:2666:1E97:17DB:AF2D:195C:B4EA (talk) 21:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- I looked at the two videos from later, the first one is gone, but the second one is still up, and if someone could find a photo of him from some time recently, we might be able to compare and see if they are similar face wise. I did look at the one in the source used and the video, they seem similar, but since angle of the video is on the side of the persons face, I can't be sure. And there's also the problem if the video is recent or not. TheCorriynial (talk) 23:14, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- Can you at least give the link of the video. 2001:FD8:265A:F090:17DC:2733:8534:614A (talk) 09:19, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- Its the second link in the "However, you can also find two videos uploaded only this past May featuring a person claimed to be him." in the word "video". TheCorriynial (talk) 17:10, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- How could we know if that claimant is really Mr. Rakoatorjoana 2001:FD8:651:5684:1:2:4CD8:3411 (talk) 11:02, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- This case is pretty simple; somebody on Malagasy WP just conflated two people. The person who died was 93 in 2020, so 7-8 years older than the PM, and doesn't look anything like him; meanwhile the recently posted videos do appear to be the PM and the poster appears to be the theologian he claims to be. I'm not sure what would compel two sets of parents to name their sons 'desire to cover up the truth' but that's beside the point. I don't believe the recent videos make any reference to when they were recorded. Star Garnet (talk) 15:09, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Star Garnet thanks for your insights about this topis 2001:FD8:651:5684:1:2:4CD8:3411 (talk) 00:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- This case is pretty simple; somebody on Malagasy WP just conflated two people. The person who died was 93 in 2020, so 7-8 years older than the PM, and doesn't look anything like him; meanwhile the recently posted videos do appear to be the PM and the poster appears to be the theologian he claims to be. I'm not sure what would compel two sets of parents to name their sons 'desire to cover up the truth' but that's beside the point. I don't believe the recent videos make any reference to when they were recorded. Star Garnet (talk) 15:09, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- How could we know if that claimant is really Mr. Rakoatorjoana 2001:FD8:651:5684:1:2:4CD8:3411 (talk) 11:02, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Its the second link in the "However, you can also find two videos uploaded only this past May featuring a person claimed to be him." in the word "video". TheCorriynial (talk) 17:10, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- Can you at least give the link of the video. 2001:FD8:265A:F090:17DC:2733:8534:614A (talk) 09:19, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- I looked at the two videos from later, the first one is gone, but the second one is still up, and if someone could find a photo of him from some time recently, we might be able to compare and see if they are similar face wise. I did look at the one in the source used and the video, they seem similar, but since angle of the video is on the side of the persons face, I can't be sure. And there's also the problem if the video is recent or not. TheCorriynial (talk) 23:14, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- I have also started looking for sources (ie: news articles) but I couldn't find any that says he died on the 2nd of January 2020. 2001:FD8:2666:1E97:17DB:AF2D:195C:B4EA (talk) 21:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- I looked at the source, the issue with the death source is its listed as a site poster, so we can't confirm, unless the newer video can be proved its him. The source date in January 5th, 2020, so I went and checked that date, but he wasn't there either. TheCorriynial (talk) 14:18, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with what TheCorriynial said I just checked the article deaths in Deaths in January 2020 and I couldn't find his name there, the Malagasy Wiki states that he died on the 2nd of January 2020 but when I looked up for his name there I can't find It. 2001:FD8:1723:EF70:17DA:B26A:8F7B:F6C7 (talk) 13:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Ahmed Osman possibly has died?
[edit]I was looking at some sources on google, and a news article came up talking about his founding party had won an election in 2021, and it says "Late Prime Minister Ahmed Osman" which may imply he's died sometime before the articles date of September 10, 2021 and after the source used in the list. Is it possible? TheCorriynial (talk) 19:50, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Source, by the way: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210910-why-has-moroccos-justice-and-development-party-lost-so-badly/ TheCorriynial (talk) 19:55, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- It seems rather unlikely that the media would have totally missed his passing, and I've seen 'late' used as a synonym/mistranslation for 'former' fairly frequently. Without another source, I wouldn't put much stock in it. Star Garnet (talk) 21:56, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Is it possible to hide the entry until a source is found that Ahmed Osman has died or even living. 2001:FD8:1714:F95A:17DD:6EF5:EABD:5A7D (talk) 08:06, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
Possible reinstatement of the Article:List of longest-living state leaders
[edit]Is there a possibility that the article titled List of longest-living state leaders be recreated but this time we will look for citations or references on their desths 2001:FD8:651:5684:1:2:4CD8:3411 (talk) 00:23, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Cesar Yanes Urias
[edit]This is not qualified enough for a metion? [2] --95.24.79.236 (talk) 19:36, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Social media posts aren't officially accepted, but we can use them to note that they are still around on that date. TheCorriynial (talk) 20:45, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Social media can be used as a source, and considering this post is from a Salvadoran government account, I believe it is acceptable to replace the 2018 source with it. TVShowFan122 (talk) 16:54, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
Two possible additions
[edit]Mohammed Ali Salim of Libya is shown in the table as born 1935 with no specific date - therefore he might possibly be older than #98-100 in the main list, plus the youngest two in the unclear status list. He can't go in any of the lists as things stand because there isn't a source to say he's alive, but moving him to the 'Unproven possibilities' table seems like a reasonable next step. Any thoughts? 2A02:8012:227B:0:810:58F2:C459:BB38 (talk) 16:37, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
Lyudvig Chibirov of South Ossetia was born in 1932 and gave an interview to the The Globe and Mail in 2018 [31]. The current notation on the unclear status list reads (in part) "......leaders of political entities whose status as sovereign states was unclear or disputed". I would contend that he fits that description neatly; former leader of a de-facto state that has existed on the ground for quite some time as these things go (c.35 years) largely unrecognised by other states (but not totally, which was new information to me - currently five do, and two more used to according to the list here). Might this provide a possible basis for adding him? 2A02:8012:227B:0:810:58F2:C459:BB38 (talk) 16:37, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- South Ossetia im pretty sure would not count. Its barely recognized as it is, and most UN states don't see it as a country. Its not a case like where Sikkim, for example, existed on its own and took awhile to join India, or Yemen when it had split governments. The same argument is also used for places that were former territory in places like in Ukraine where its separate, but is controlled by Russia, for example. TheCorriynial (talk) 16:05, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- You appear not to have engaged with the specific reasoning I put forward. I am not suggesting South Ossetia counts for the main list (it obviously doesn't), merely the unclear list based on the wording of the existing footnote. I made reference to the UN states which do/did recoognise it, which places it on a different level to others which might be thought broadly comparable, like Transnistria or (former) Nagorno-Karabakh, which never had such formal recognition at all. The entities in Ukraine claimed independence for a much shorter time span, have since subsumed themselves into/been annexed by Russia (so wouldn't count for the purposes of the list in any case as they no longer claim to be states) plus those areas are subject to an active and ongoing war. The Georgia-South Ossetia conflict in contrast has been frozen for a considerable period. Of course it could 'unfreeze' and change dramatically like the Nagorno-Karabakh case, but it hasn't as of now. I don't see what Sikkim has to do with it as it's status and context isn't remotely comparable, and anyway there are no sources to confirm if the relevant people are still alive, whereas there is a source for Chibirov. 2A02:8012:227B:0:2151:3FF2:C62D:D7F5 (talk) 13:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- ^ "Leonel Mário D'Alva". Bertrand.
- ^ "Don César Yanes de 100 años de edad ya recibió su primera dosis de la vacuna contra el #COVID19". Gobierno de El Salvador on X. Retrieved 24 April 2024.
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