Talk:1967 Madras State Legislative Assembly election

Annadurai's Nomination

Have added the citation for Ujjal Singh's nomination of Anna. It was in a book by HA Gani with other instances of such nominations in other states —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sodabottle (talk • contribs) 10:01, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

more

Lot can be written on this election and the campaign preceding it like

• 1)anti hindi agitation
• 2)rice shortage and the first rice promise (3 padis for 1 rs) in the manifesto
• 3)widespread disatisfaction (hatred) of bhatavatsalam
• 4) swatantara and rajaji's alliance with dmk
• 5)fears of Hindi chauvunists at the centre about secession

lots of sources out there (telling both sides of the story) will try to add later.--Sodabottle (talk) 12:47, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

great. I will also look for information in those topics and add them. --CarTick 15:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I am breaking my promise to self not to read on politics :-).. yet again. I will collect the sources for expansion here. :

 *1) Jayakantan's memoires. he campaigned for congress in 1967 and was(is) stauchly anti dmk
    http://books.google.com/books?id=Lnl_um7uFcsC
 *2) Caste/district wise analysis of 1967 dmk performanc
    http://books.google.com/books?id=s9cYoZaNxMcC&pg=PA276&dq=1967+tamil+nadu+elections&as_brr=3#v=onepage&q=1967%20tamil%20nadu%20elections&f=false
 *3)Rice politics in 1967
  http://books.google.com/books?id=jZ2Yaz7c7uYC&pg=PA270&dq=1967+tamil+nadu+elections&lr=&as_brr=3#v=onepage&q=1967%20tamil%20nadu%20elections&f=false
 http://www.thehindu.com/2009/04/09/stories/2009040956141300.htm
 http://www.rediff.com/election/2006/apr/19ptn.htm
 http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2006/05/12/stories/2006051204201900.htm
 http://www.tehelka.com/story_main41.asp?filename=Ne160509the_great.asp
 *4) the 67 election debacle in kamaraj's viewpoint
  http://books.google.com/books?id=bOjT3qffnMkC&pg=PA118&dq=1967+tamil+nadu+elections+rice&lr=&as_brr=3#v=onepage&q=&f=false
 *5)marguerite ross barnett - Cultural Nationalist Electoral Politics in Tamil Nadu,
   there is no google books preview for this book but like robert hardgrave, ross barnett is a strong netral pov source for what happened in the 67 election. can be quoted without having accusations of pro/anti dmk/tamil nationalist bias
 *6) for anti hindi agitations - sumathy ramasami (she is a staple. google books has limited preview, but it is available for free elsewhere in the net)
http://books.google.com/books?id=YIlnH_582l8C&pg=PA157&lpg=PA157&dq=bhaktavatsalam+hate+1967&source=bl&ots=hC08q1Qi3z&sig=8HXNCO512pab7FpKQCNX1YJaBls&hl=en&ei=z-f-SufjMIW24Qa0h5yBDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=&f=false
*7) highest polling percentage ever in tamil nadu was in 1967.
*8) Robert L Hardgrave (another vellaikaran source for ensuring outsider pov).  he is good
 Riots in Tamil Nadu Problems and Prospects of India 's Language Crisis
*9) Rise of Dravidian parties to power in Tamil Nadu - hee hee
 Wikiality123 and Ravichandar84 have been doing good work in dravidian politics. so we could ask their help also

I am leaving out tamil sources for last (invariably they tend to be POV and full of hyperbole) - there are no neutrals in TN. either you are with them or against them ;-)))... Now i will run off and watch TV.. MUST STOP THINKING POLITICS... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sodabottle (talk • contribs) 17:43, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

glad u broke your promise. looks like we can improve this article to WP:Good article status. --CarTick 14:53, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

periyar support for congress

interesting. am not able to verify both the links as i cant open them. --CarTick 23:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I am able to open the periyar.org link, but the india today link seems not to be working. The text of the article can be found here [1]. I will check again in a few days and if it is not working still will remove the reference replace it with others. The same citation is in Annadurai article also. I have added a tamil source now [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sodabottle (talk • contribs) 04:31, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Areas for improvement

• 1) Annadurai's Cabinet
• 2) link to Indian general election in Madras, 1967. Adding See Also sections
• 3) Lead section can be reworked a bit —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sodabottle (talk • contribs) 04:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

sure and the following

1. the exact sequence of events which preceded and followed Anna's nomination. we could even discuss about the legality and the controversy associated with it.
2. the single cabinet member of Bhaktavatsalam who didnt lose the election --CarTick 05:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

i have added CNA cabinet. now collecting Bhatavatsalam cabinet. once done will cross ref with INC winners of 67 and see which minister survived.--Sodabottle (talk) 07:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

the lone survivor was G. Bhuvaraghan--Sodabottle (talk) 08:16, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

dates

the exact dates on election was held, votes counted and results announced would be a useful addition. i cant find it myself. --CarTick 13:55, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Timeline

• Polling staggered between 15-21 February ("Poll 15th to 21st February 1967. During this General Election" .."there was one day poll in all constituencies in Madras City, Chingleput, The Nilgiris and Kanyakumari districts, two days poll in South Arcot..")[3]
• Counting on 23 February[4]. You have already cited this book
• Annadurai meets governor on 2 March to stake claim[5]

--Sodabottle (talk) 15:15, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I can acces this book. --CarTick 15:48, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Thats great. That should solve our timeline doubts--Sodabottle (talk) 15:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

wait a minute. was that "can't access"?. in that case, you can piece the data together by using search phrases like "Poll 15th to 21st February 1967. During this General Election" in the books.google.com URL--Sodabottle (talk) 15:53, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

yes u r right. I can not access. I did the same search as u suggested, but I cant access any of the hits which came up. do u have any special privileges. --CarTick 15:55, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

no special privileges. I just gleam disjointed phrases from the search hits, stitch them together to get the whole page. It takes twenty or thirty guess searches to assemble a paragraph. I have got a lot of practice in doing this for my pet researches. Thus Pages 146-152 of the particular book can be "gleamed" to reveal the following

      * Madras - 15 February
      * Nilgiris, Dharapuram, Krishnagiri - 18 February
      * Periyakulam, Dindigul, Madurai - 21 February

With more searches eventually the entire page can be transcribed. --Sodabottle (talk) 16:31, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

guess i understood what you mean. sounds like a brilliant idea. but we dont know how many districts existed at that time to be sure if we got all the information. --CarTick 16:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

can we say for sure the polling happened between 15 to 21. --CarTick 20:47, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes and use this as reference [6]--Sodabottle (talk) 21:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

grand alliance?

i think it was called a united front or united democratic front [7]--Sodabottle (talk) 18:40, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Another citation for "united front" [8]--Sodabottle (talk) 18:46, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

great. --CarTick 19:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Election

we need to create one section which would detail the election dates, the turn out, the conduct of the election and related violences if any. if we can get our hands how the campaigning was conducted, that would be great as well. such as movies, speeches, and other routine stuff. --CarTick 19:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

DMK propaganda wing was cranking out non stop in the 60s. we would get tons of material - films, songs, double meaning dialogues, allegories etc.

• MGR Films - arasakattalai (1967),vivasayi (1967),kanchi thalaivan (1963), deivathai(1964), anbe vaa(1966), enga veetu pillai (1966) [9][10]
• other actors films [11]
• Jayakantan for congress[12]
• sivaji and padmini for congress [13]

I dont know what to make of Thinnai website. can it be considered reliable. --CarTick 20:31, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

generally reliable. Thinnai, kalachuvadu and uyirmmai are part of the "respectable" siru pathirikkai circuit. Lets say they are atleast as reliable as ananda vikatan or dinamalar or junior vikatan. Mostly in the small magazines, the data errors are less as their readership is generally more intellectual and prone to nitpicking. --Sodabottle (talk) 20:38, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

they have their editorial slant and axes to grind, but information accuracy is as good as a mainstream tamil magazine. lower down the totem pole comes keetru.com, which is a commie mag and fudges data sometimes.--Sodabottle (talk) 20:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

good. could you pls use those articles then to expand the campaigning section a bit. --CarTick 20:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

will do Tomorrow. i am getting sleepy now--Sodabottle (talk) 21:22, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

great. good night. --CarTick 21:32, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

independents

all six of them should be in the united front column. Three were muslim league allied with dmk and the remaining three (subbiah mudaliar, subbaraja, kbs mani) were dmk backed independents [14]. confirmation comes from the fact, no dmk candidate was fielded in those constituencies.--Sodabottle (talk) 20:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

removed subbaraja from dmk backed indies. a cpm candidate was in fact fielded left the remaining two in position. mudaliar contested in "lion" and formally joined DMK in 71. KBS mani seems to be a RPI candidate/congress rebel. these things make me wish my grand dad was still alive. dude was a DMK faithful and would have known what was going on--Sodabottle (talk) 15:43, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

nominated

here. --CarTick 15:05, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

woo hoo.. do we now fish around for reviewers?--Sodabottle (talk) 15:46, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

i am not sure. I have placed a notice on Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics. --CarTick 17:49, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

GAN is heavily backlogged, so you might want to go look for a reviewer. I had to go around with a begging bowl to many people to review R. K. Narayan. No one on WT:INB pays much attention to review requests generally. -SpacemanSpiff 17:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

That is not exciting. will see what i can do. --CarTick 18:24, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions

• Year of File:Annadurai CM.jpg is missing, no evidence of PD-India
• "He was replaced by M. Bakthavatsalam who did not have his personal charisma or political acumen." is an editorial view (opinion), not a fact.
• "The election was held between Februray 15 and 21 in different phases." How many phases? when?
• List of elected members: What is the reference? --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 15:59, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

1. year of the image is going to be a problem. I have no idea how to find it. someone has to help me or we may have to remove the image which is not going to be very nice. we may replace with the flag of the party instead.
2. I attributed the opinion to the author instead of making it sound like a fact.
3. will try to find the election dates. we have sources which have that information. just dont have access to it.
4. The reference is in the External Links section. I just cant find a better place to add it. --CarTick 00:18, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

photograph of annadurai is 1967 official CM portrait when he took office. it hangs in many govt offices (or used to). I cant find any online source for proving that. If not we have another PD image here - anna100.tn.gov.in/anna.gif--Sodabottle (talk) 08:29, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

If 1967 was when the photo was taken, it can not be a PD image as per --CarTick 14:51, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

This file is NOT necessarily in the public domain in the United States because a non-simple image can only be in the public domain in the U.S.:

• if it entered the public domain in India prior to 1996 (i.e., the author died before 1941 for most works or it was published prior to 1941 for photographs - see Wikipedia:Non-U.S. copyrights), or
• when, after that date, its copyright term expires in accordance with U.S. law.

Information about the creation date and creator should be provided.

If the image is not in the public domain in the United States, in addition to the license tag for its status in India an appropriate fair use license and rationale should be provided, or the image should be proposed for deletion.

If the media is in the public domain in both India and the United States, it may be transferred to the Wikimedia Commons.

Note: If this image is in the public domain in the U.S., modify the end of the copyright tag from }} to |commons}}.
This will replace the preceding U.S. copyright notification with a nomination for this image to be moved to the Wikimedia Commons.

oops i was under the impression government photographic work is PD. So do we replace it with the party symbols?--Sodabottle (talk) 22:19, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

for this image permission has been obtained from dravidar kazhagam. may be we can chop it up and use anna's pic[15]--Sodabottle (talk) 22:22, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

That is a good alternative. First, I want to make sure this picture can or can not be used. I will post your question on the India discussion board. --CarTick 01:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

File:Annadurai and Periyar.JPG: check if the uploader took the photo or is an official representing the Dravid organization, only then can (s)he release the work in PD. If the uploader has scanned or photographed the original picture, it is a derivative work and thus the original creator may hold the copyright. The photo also lacks a date. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 10:13, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

V, 28 and 28 A of Indian Copyright law

“ 28. Term of copyright in government works In the case of government work, where government is the first owner of the copyright therein, copyright shall subsist until 17[sixty] years from the beginning of the calendar year next following the year in which the work is first published.

28A. Term of copyright in works of public undertakings In the case of a work, where a public undertaking is the first owner of the copyright therein, copyright shall subsist until 17[sixty] years from the beginning of the calendar year next following the year in which the work is first published.

”

--CarTick 14:04, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Well as per the message left on my talk page by Redtigerxyz, I had forwarded the emails concerning the pictures in July. I did not hear anything back on the licence issue and so am assuming it is still acceptable as PD. FYI the image licence were obtained by User:Wiki Raja as a PDF file (containing loads of images) from Dravidar Kazhagam which was forwarded to me to help in uploading. Cheers Wiki San Roze ^†αLҝ 14:39, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

If the picture is owned by Dravida Kazhagam and if the official who released the pictures had the authority to release them (even if he personally did not take the pictures), that should do. As long as the e-mail he sent mentions this and his credentials and if we can independently confirm these (especially his credentials), we are fine. --CarTick 16:38, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

BTW if pictures owned by Government would come under PD (which I'm not sure, although it seems like it does for USA) this would be a better choice. Wiki San Roze ^†αLҝ 19:30, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

unfortunately not. Indian copyright law seems to be different from USA in that aspect. real bad. --CarTick 19:40, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

margin of victory

the statistics doest add up with the margins in the "List of elected members" section. --CarTick 16:37, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

let us rely on ECI sources instead of the books. They should be more accurate--Sodabottle (talk) 16:40, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Nomination of File:MGRPposter.jpg for deletion

Hello, this is just a heads up to inform you that File:MGRPposter.jpg, which is used in this article, has been nominated for deletion at PUF by myself. You can see my rationale and add your input on the nomination page, which can be found here. Thanks, Acather96 (talk) 16:53, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

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