Template talk:Country data Kingdom of France

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Army link

Hello @Mjroots I'd like to ask you if you could add the army alias link which goes to here: French Royal Army. I noticed when using the template it just says "France Army", though it should be "French Royal Army". Cheers! J-Man11 (talk) 02:38, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@J-Man11: I've added in the link, but it don't seem to be working -

France Army. Looks like it'll need a manual link for now using flagicon. Mjroots (talk) 06:07, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm is there anything I can do to help both for that and the incorrect Royal French Navy flag? J-Man11 (talk) 15:07, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@J-Man11: what incorrect Royal French Navy flag?

French Navy is the correct flag, is it not? Do you mean the link is incorrect? Mjroots (talk) 10:39, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's wrong. That white flag wasn't used (by the Navy) until after the Bourbon Restoration. Before that, the flag was

J-Man11 (talk) 14:32, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@J-Man11: This seems to be something that will affect a lot of articles. Have yelled for assistance at WT:MILHIST. We'll need to sort out a label name and identify what dates the flags were in use between. Mjroots (talk) 14:41, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am not an expert on this but I can confirm that J-Man11 is correct that a different flag was used in the previous century. See this cartoon about the French defeat at the Battle of the Saintes. The victorious British admiral tramples on a fallen French flag. From Hill To Shore (talk) 17:27, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mjroots: when you say this could affect a lot of articles, might that include any ship articles? If so, you could also post a note wt:ships to get some extra eyes on this. (just a thought) Cheers - wolf 17:38, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Thewolfchild: - it won't affect any merchant ships, but it won't hurt to let WP:SHIPS know. Will do so. Mjroots (talk) 17:42, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@J-Man11: are you saying that the correct French navy flag before 1798 is the one labelled "emigre"? If so, we can use {{navy|Kingdom of France|emigre}} or {{navy|Kingdom of France|emigre|name=French Royal Navy}}, which produce French Navy or French Royal Navy respectively. Mjroots (talk) 17:56, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I had actually added the 'Emigre' one, as I noticed the incorrect banner was in. The 'French Royal Navy' one should be the 'Emigre' one. So the answer is yes, it should. J-Man11 (talk) 18:07, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Other sources, such as this, don't agree with that. I don't have an axe to grind either way but would much prefer more sources be provided as evidence before action is taken. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 18:48, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is is possible that both were in use? Mjroots (talk) 06:27, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is based on unverified internet sources but one claim I am seeing[1] is that the plain white flag was the standard naval ensign for the French Navy from 1700, except for a force based the Mediteranean, where a red ensign was used until 1748. The white flag with yellow fleur de lys could be flown alongside the ensign to indicate that a member of the French royal family was aboard; the royals could also grant permission for a commanding officer to fly the fleur de lys as a sign of their favour. For major battles of the French navy before the revolution, there would probably be at least one noble commanding officer in the fleet that had been goven permission to fly the royal flag. From Hill To Shore (talk) 14:13, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Should we be determining on a case by case basis whether an infobox should use the plain or fleur de lys ensign, based on who the commander of the unit/fleet was, or is it better to decide on one "basic" ensign for all situations (pending further corroboration)? Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:42, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Stick to the one (white) flag. Seems similar to the British Royal Navy vessels flying the red, white or blue ensign before the white was standardised. Articles use the white ensign. Mjroots (talk) 14:53, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]