Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bands and musicians

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Bands and musicians

TVJ Singing Queens

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I'm doubtful in this article, it is lack of references fails in WP:BANDMEMBER, citing a unreliable sources fails in WP:RS or can Redirect to Eat Bulaga since this article have high related on this topic. Royiswariii Talk! 15:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Rouba

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BLP of a singer-songwriter, largely unsourced, who seems to have turned their hand to many things in life without being clearly notable for any of them. The Arabic article isn’t any help with sourcing unfortunately. Mccapra (talk) 11:09, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, does not seem to be anything to support any claim of notability. As noted, largely unsourced. And in at least one case, tagged as such for a decade. I'd copyedit this lump of vaimglorious guff to the bone if I didn't think it was clearly headed for the exit.TheLongTone (talk) 13:38, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Josenid

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After reviewing this BLP, I don't think it meets the criteria for either WP:NSINGER or GNG. WP:SIGCOV requires high quality references with proper bylines. --Pitille02 (talk) 07:32, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 October 26. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 07:53, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Abigail Budak

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I don't think this singer meets WP:NARTIST. No apparent label, charting songs, notable awards, etc. Three of the cited sources are her official webpage/media, the 4th is three paragraphs, two of them just quoting her. Doesn't seem like WP:SIGCOV. Here2rewrite (talk) 17:43, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Him Kerosene

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I started out redirecting their two albums Start. Stop. and No Mend No Repair (a third bluelinked album already redirected to someone else's work -- now fixed with a disambiguated redlink) in the absence of evidence that they met WP:NALBUM, but on further review I can't find any evidence that they actually meet WP:GNG/WP:NBAND. It's possible that there may be offline/defunct qualitative coverage, but their sv-wiki articles provide no additional help with that either. ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 16:32, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Hinapia

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Fails WP:BAND, did not have significant coverage, and any coverage in reliable sources seems to be just regurgitations of press releases from their agency. Released one song that did not chart on any qualifying WP:CHART, then disbanded. RachelTensions (talk) 07:16, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: a related article for one of the singers, Eunwoo, has been proposed for deletion. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 01:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jayson Sherlock

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Run of the mill everyday person that has played in a handful of bands with no particular suitable redirect target. Fails WP:GNG and WP:ANYBIO. Graywalls (talk) 05:03, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - agree with nom. Current sourcing is stuff that can't be used for notability, like band's own page, facebook, youtube. Cannot tell if this guy passes any of the WP:NMUSICIAN checks either such as charting. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 05:51, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment I'm going to try and find sources for this guy. He was in one of the best-selling heavy metal bands in Australia, at the peak of their popularity, so there's probably stuff out there.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 16:34, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whelp. There's lots of stuff about the bands he's in/been in, but little about him. I suspect there's probably print mentions in magazines or newspapers, but that's going to be difficult to dig through.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 17:22, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unless something establishes him notable for himself, I say he's not notable. This works the other way as well. An organization may be notable, but individual members (or groups of members) do not "inherit" notability due to their membership. from WP:INHERITORG Graywalls (talk) 18:49, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Right. That's why I'm not counting that coverage of the bands he's been in, because that would be more appropriate for the requisite articles. I do see that an HM interview is referenced, but not cited, in the article. I'll try and see if I can access that. If it's an interview of "him", that would help towards individual notability.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 19:54, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Provisional) Keep vote, because there's an HM interview with/profile of him in existence. It needs to be accessed and cited, but accessibility doesn't determine notability, the coverage need only *exist*.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 20:01, 25 October 2024 (UTC) Ah, it's accessible online: here it is--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 20:03, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@3family6:, found it. here I think interview with the subject can be used to verify information about the subject but obviously, words from the subject is not independent, so I question its value for conferring notability, which requires secondary source. Graywalls (talk) 20:38, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

that he's covered in an interview by an independent reliable source would confer notability, but it's just one source.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 15:15, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Subject does not have significant coverage in independent sources hence fail WP:GNG and WP:Notability for musician (I can't find any traces of a major award)Tesleemah (talk) 13:14, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fadaei

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An article that was moved from draftspace by the creator. The sources in the article are of poor quality, and a WP:BEFORE search comes up with nothing. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 22:06, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Businesspeople, and Iran. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 22:06, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note Fadaei is one of the famous political Iranian rapper, but in Iran news sources are routine event recaps, And they don't cover the political rappers while the rappers should be arrested or under sentenced to death

AmirX0213 (talk) 09:50, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AmirX0213 What you're saying is, regardless of whether or not Fadaei qualifies for an article, it's a complex political situation. Right? I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 14:59, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, because hipHop music in Iran is illegal and The News source in Iran is Under control of Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps ,but Fadaei is notable as he was one of the founder Moltafet music group and these days he manage this group and as a rapper his got General notability guideline AmirX0213 (talk) 16:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AmirX0213 Both for better and for worse, people can only be notable with significant mentions in multiple, independent/third-party, secondary sources. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 17:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@I dream of horses sure, by the way he got some sources which I mentioned them on his references and specially like bbc and he his highly searched on google. And in notable farsi sources they tried to unkind him. I didn't mentioned them in references AmirX0213 (talk) 18:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AmirX0213 Yeah, it seems that you're trying to add new sources, at least. I might look at the references later. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 21:45, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@I dream of horses thank you so much, at least 8 iranian notable sources added AmirX0213 (talk) 11:27, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General Rudie

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While I was able to find some coverage of the subject in reliable sources (which I've added to the article), it's not enough to establish notability, and I wasn't able to find anything much more substantial (there are mentions in newspapers). The AllMusic biography ([1]) is very brief, and the AllMusic ([2]) and Exclaim! ([3]) reviews aren't particularly long (both less than 200 words). The other links in the article don't help establish notability, either (and the Punknews.org review isn't a staff review). toweli (talk) 20:27, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Links in the article and mentioned above are all I find as well, I don't think they meet musical notability here. Oaktree b (talk) 20:33, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of best-selling boy bands

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This article has been deleted twice, in 2012 and 2014, for being a list article with an impossible-to-define subject that consists largely of original research. As far as I can tell, this current iteration suffers from the same issues, including selection bias toward English-speaking bands (is BTS not a boy band?) and questionable sourcing.

Notably, the sales numbers are pretty universally incidental to the subject of the sourced articles. In addition, the dates of the articles range from 1995 to 2018. While that doesn't totally preclude the article from existing, it's clear to see that these numbers are not an objective current ranking of sales, and the stretch to source implies that reliable rankings of this sort aren't currently out there. At the very least, the current article is drawing conclusions not made by the sources. Thesixthstaff (talk) 18:42, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Lists. Thesixthstaff (talk) 18:42, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep BTS is listed as a boy band in the start of their article as well as in the category Category:South Korean boy bands. Category:Boy bands exist, and so does the article boy band that clearly defines what one was. If the list is incomplete, add to it, that not a valid reason to delete it. I don't see this as any different than the other such lists of this type. Category:Lists of best-selling music artists Dream Focus 23:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. I am also sure we are not going to create a List of best selling rock bands. >>> Extorc.talk 16:22, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the article as it is, the criteria seems arbritrary and a lot of the data synthesized... if we're going to keep it, it needs a full re-write with very specific criteria set out for what gets included like at List of best-selling music artists. List of best-selling girl groups is in similarly poor condition. RachelTensions (talk) 16:24, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. What are we doing here?! All of the issues raised in prior AfDs remain. This list relies entirely on a weakly defined category and original research. Appeals to the existence of a main boy band article and its definition(s) are unconvincing. It's reasonable to have an article on an extremely well attested, if loosely defined, topic. Any concerns about the main article can be discussed on its talk page. Applying original research to create a ranking based on another article is unacceptable. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 18:38, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tea for the Voyage

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I wasn't able to find significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources, with one exception. On ProQuest, there is significant coverage, but it's all from a local newspaper, The Kingston Whig-Standard. The band is also merely mentioned in a few other newspapers. toweli (talk) 18:38, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ario Nahavandi

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I'm not seeing third party SIGCOV, probably not enough here for WP:NBIO. KH-1 (talk) 05:59, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Death of Liam Payne

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Feels like WP:NOTNEWS to me. While Liam Payne was famous, he wasn't famous to the degree that Elvis Presley, Kurt Cobain or Michael Jackson were that it would feel like having a separate page solely dedicated to his death would be warranted. What seems to me to be a good comparison would be the death of Matthew Perry , which nobody has decided warrants a standalone article. Wikipedia is supposed to be a summary of knowledge, and a lot of the detail in this article feels superflous. At 3,700 words currently, Liam Payne's article is also considerably below the 8,000 word limit where looking to split the article would be warranted, so I would support the selective merging of the content of this article back into that one. Hemiauchenia (talk) 17:19, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge selectively as the Payne article is not too long to do this. I know WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but the storied drug-related deaths of Keith Moon and Brian Jones don't have their own articles, heck, not even Elvis. I had a discussion on ITN about the unusualness of accidental deaths of musicians compared to murders, and I'm pretty sure that murder is about the only way that the death of a musician can truly take on a phenomenon of its own away from the artist. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:55, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge selectively to Liam Payne, in agreement with the nominator and previous voter. His recent death was indeed tragic for his fans, but this article is unfortunately leaning toward some obsessive and unhealthy trivia. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 19:07, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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- Merge selectively, the impact of Payne's death is defintely palpable but nothing like that of some other major artists who have their own dedicated Death pages (eg David Bowie and Michael Jackson). There is not enough information to warrant an entire article when it equates to what would usually fit in the Death section of any standard celebrity's article. AlienChex (talk) 20:35, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge selectively per nom. PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:31, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to the death section of Liam Payne per what the word count states above. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:47, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to Liam Payne#Death per above; his death gained a lot of attention, but not enough to solidify a split; the articles combined would only be about 5,000 words and thus fails WP:SIZESPLIT. LoTrWiki (talk) 01:50, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per above. Anything of real import here can go in the bio article. DarkSide830 (talk) 05:53, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to Liam Payne#Death per aboveKeepcominback (talk) 13:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The investigation seems to be a developing story (here is an update, for example). This could be a case of WP:TOOSOON. Between the ongoing investigation and responses, it may be possible to expand several sections. Starklinson (talk) 11:36, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Liam Payne. Agree with others, I don't think this warrants is own article. Not yet at least. TheBritinator (talk) 14:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Liam Payne per above. His death is not worthy of a standalone article as, despite his notability, it has not had the impact of someone like Michael Jackson or even David Bowie. JeffSpaceman (talk) 16:05, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Agree 173.177.135.148 (talk) 23:29, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Agree. Doesn't warrant a separate article, at all. Pragnell1957 (talk) 11:47, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge While it does make international headlines and a lot of discussion regarding his death, this is not notable enough I believe. Until if more details of the investigation turn up, it'll remain within Liam Payne's article. ROBLOXGamingDavid (talk) 14:34, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not gonna lie, this is a detailed and very well-written article, probably GA standard. Too bad I'm leaning towards merge and redirect per above. Don't really see a reason to grant a standalone article for now. Maybe if turns out that it was a murder or so like the death of Michael Jackson, until then, it's remains can be preserved. dxneo (talk) 18:46, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to Liam Payne#Death per above comments. TheWikiholic (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 07:42, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Hustwit

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WP:BLP of a composer and record producer, not properly sourced as having a strong claim to passing WP:NMUSIC. As always, musicians are not automatically entitled to have Wikipedia articles just because they exist, and must meet certain specific criteria to qualify for inclusion -- but the only notability claim being attempted here is that his work exists, and the article is referenced entirely to primary sources that are not support for notability -- mainly his work metaverifying its own existence on the self-published websites of organizations or companies that were directly affiliated with it, but also IMDb -- there's not even one piece of WP:GNG-worthy coverage about him in an independent third-party source shown at all, and absolutely nothing reliable or GNG-worthy turned up on a Google search either.
Also, I strongly suspect conflict of interest, as the article was first created by a WP:SPA who created this as their first-ever Wikipedia edit and then disappeared until coming back four years later to "update" it, and has never edited any other pages on Wikipedia at all.
As his career goes back more than a decade, I'm willing to withdraw this if somebody with better access than I've got to archives of British media coverage that might not have Googled can find more than I was able to, but nothing here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt him from having to pass GNG on better referencing than this. Bearcat (talk) 16:47, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Stefan Lessard

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Fails WP:NMUSICBIO, nearly all of the coverage that can be found in a WP:BEFORE search and on the article itself is articles about Dave Matthews Band, passing mentions, and primary interviews. Only standalone coverage is about a house fire, and that is insufficient as far as establishing independent notability. The article also contains swaths of unsourced information about the subject, a living person, so there are BLP issues at play here as well. No independent notability outside of the group, and should be redirected to Dave Matthews Band accordingly. JeffSpaceman (talk) 12:55, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and California. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:40, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Dave Matthews Band. He has had a decades-long tenure with a famous band, but he simply does not have enough individual achievements outside the band to earn an article here. This article's personal info isn't notable, or very interesting for that matter, and mostly consists of fan trivia. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 19:14, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect. As noted by the nomination, the sourcing in the article is almost non-existent, and two sections of the page are completely unsourced, in violation of WP:BLP. In theory, the bassist of one of the biggest bands of the past three decades should be able to be sourced. The story of his house fire is a classic WP:BLP1E situation. FWIW, I’ve seen the Dave Matthews Band perform live, once. Bearian (talk) 01:47, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Darryl Andrews

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I searched extensively but couldn't find much information. Although I have released some songs, they haven't gained much attention. As a result, they don't meet Wikipedia's general criteria (WP:GNG)or the specific criteria for its music category (WP:ENT). Jannatulbaqi (talk) 12:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per WP:BLP. Three essential sections are totally unsourced. A search online reveals that there are dozens of similarly named people. I can’t fathom how, in 2024, someone would waste their time on writing this mess and posting on main space, as if they’ve never read another article on Wikipedia. Bearian (talk) 01:54, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lil JoJo

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Recreation of previously deleted article, lacks WP:MUSICBIO, WP:BASIC and WP:NOTABILITY. Darrion N. Brown 🙂 (my talk page / my sandbox) 08:30, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Article has dozens and dozens of independent sources and a variety of such. Proves notability by showing how his death and influence caused major effects in the gang war in Chicago. RowanJ LP (talk) 13:23, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I'm personally undecided but will point out that the article might be viable if reconstructed around his murder and his status as the victim, because that received a lot of reliable coverage in Chicago news as a symptom of gang violence. That might require re-titling the article as Murder of Joseph J. Coleman or something similar. His musicial achievements as Lil JoJo are minimal and not notable enough for a musician-based article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep & Rename - I am a major contributor to this article. I think there is definitely a justified argument for keeping the article because his murder was a significant event that received major coverage and discussion. His music is foundational to the Chicago drill subgenre, but there is an argument that that alone may not justify designating an entire article for it (given the lack of references about it). I agree with Doomsdayer520's comment above that the page should be re-titled as Murder of Joseph J. Coleman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cerebrality (talk • contribs) 24 October 2024 (UTC)

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Keep - It's a good article with proper sourcing. More relevant now than ever.

natemup (talk) 21:19, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fleur Mino

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Delete per WP:TNT, and for failing WP:SIGCOV. Article has major sourcing and verifiability issues. Several of the claims are not supported or only partially supported by the provided citations. Most of the cited references that are not dead do not actually verify the article content. For example, most of the cited sources do not name the roles she played in the productions or how long she played them, or review her performance at all. They only list her as a cast member in an un-named part, and do not review her performance. For this reason, I don't think we can assume the dead links are accurately verifying the content. The article will need a complete re-write which is why WP:TNT is a valid argument. Additionally, none of the sources have Mino as the primary subject so it is not clear at all that GNG is met. 4meter4 (talk) 20:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I see neither significant coverage nor a large number of recitals. She’s had fewer recitals than my totally non-notable partner, who’s had three recitals and been a backup singer for Andrea Boccelli several times. I note that she has fewer than 2000 followers on Instagram. In other words, WP:MILL. Bearian (talk) 03:12, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Enduser (musician)

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I wasn't able to find significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources. toweli (talk) 19:26, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Despite a long career and a few TV appearances, he has not been noticed by the reliable media and is only visible in basic DJ directories and streaming sites. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:47, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Olga Kolobova

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Fails WP:SIGCOV. Possibly a case of WP:TOOSOON as she is young. Article is largely based on a single source which does have independent significant coverage. I was unable to locate a second source of equal quality. The other source is published by her employer and lacks independence. While this does not necessarily mean that she doesn't deserve an article, the Russian language wiki has no entry on this singer and the article is an orphan. It's possible Russian language sources exist that I missed, so if anyone knows a Russian language speaking wikipedian who is active on the English wiki, it might be good to ping them for an opinion. They might have better luck searching for sources. 4meter4 (talk) 18:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Also, this is extremely poorly written, almost to WP:TBT. There is not much of a biography. How old is she? Has she ever been kissed? Why is the language used like a fan boy on vodka? Bearian (talk) 03:19, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Attractions

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No evidence of notability separate from Elvis Costello. Most information of importance already covered in Costello's page DeputyBeagle (talk) 15:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to Elvis Costello. The key thing here is the album they released on their own, which despite the nominator's statement, isn't even mentioned in the Costello article. --Michig (talk) 21:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not an album of any particular note. I'm not opposed to a merge but I don't think the Attractions doing an album without Costello is noteworthy for his page DeputyBeagle (talk) 22:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Elvis Costello. Note that not all of the article has to be merged, and most of the text in this article is merely a wordier version of history already discussed at Costello's article. A few band-specific events can be squeezed in over there. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:37, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did contribute some a bit to the article a few years ago, including adding the NF image and some sources. The only basis I'd argue the inclusion of notability would be the fact that the Attractions have been called one of the best backing bands in music history, but as the others have said, about 90% of their career is tied to EC. With that being said I think it would be fine to merge. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:06, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- Keep . This band were the backing group to a leading New Wave singer, which surely makes them notable. YTKJ (talk) 10:13, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blade Icewood

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Fails WP:MUSIC with no notable discography or label activity. The only material in the article is about his death and useless content about feuding rap groups, with no viable coverage of his own music. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 05:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Anna Cymmerman

AfDs for this article:

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BLP tagged for sourcing issues since 2010. Only source is from her employer which lacks independence. Not clear that the subject meets WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 02:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note. I didn't realize there was an earlier nomination in 2009 when I made this nom. Apparently un-named sources were identified at an external website during that discussion. However, the web archive url isn't loading for me so I can't see what these are...4meter4 (talk) 02:22, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep – per WP:Notability (music)#Criteria for musicians and ensembles ("notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria") #6: she has performed numerous significant roles at several notable opera houses. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Michael Bednarek, subject must first meet WP:GNG because notability is not inherent. dxneo (talk) 18:55, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@dxneo Michael is citing an WP:SNG which is another accepted pathway to establishing notability other than WP:GNG. This is perfectly fine, although I note that the article currently cites no independent sources supporting the SNG being cited. We still need independent sources to prove an SNG.4meter4 (talk) 22:57, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

İzel discography

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As the article İzel (singer) is not very long why do we need this article which was tagged as unsourced years ago? Chidgk1 (talk) 11:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Normally, I would consider a merge to the artists. However, not only has the article been tagged as unsourced, but it has been completely unsourced since User:Pop izel - another red flag - created the page 15 years ago. Speficially, the sales figures would need sourcing. Therefore, there is no mergeable content. Geschichte (talk) 11:36, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - In addition to being unsourced, this discography also adds nothing that is not already seen in the basic list of albums back at the singer's article. A full discog article is unsupportable per the standards and guidelines at Wikipedia:WikiProject Discographies. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:19, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete It is better to expand the main article. desmay (talk) 20:27, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christiani Pitts

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Fails WP:NACTOR with sparse credits, none major. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Simon Kero

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I really sympathise with the topic of the article, but there is no coverage about him beyond him being stranded in Juba, which is mentioned in one source (not even crossing into WP:BLP1E territory). Nothing to meet WP:N or WP:SINGER at all! FuzzyMagma (talk) 19:08, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep United Nations Mission in South Sudan thought he is notable enough to make a video about him for International Day of Peace 2020 - see https://media.un.org/avlibrary/en/asset/d255/d2558965. Dorsetonian (talk) 19:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
see WP:SINGER for criteria for notability for singers,e.g., Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself". Your link does not establish any of that. FuzzyMagma (talk) 20:45, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Kafu Banton

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the topic of the article seems not to comply with WP:SINGER, not WP:BIO, WP:RS to comply with WP:GNG Pitille02 (talk) 09:13, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Latin Fresh

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I can't find any significant coverage from independent and reliable sources, not even in spanish

the topic of the article seems not to comply with WP:SINGER, not WP:SIGCOV in WP:RS to comply with WP:GNG Pitille02 (talk) 09:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep I haven't done a full search yet but this staff written bio on AllMusic here is a reliable source that confirms he has a Gold record and multiple album releases on Sony Music. That passes criteria 3 and 5 of WP:NMUSIC, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 22:49, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kumaar

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Fails WP:NMUSICIAN. Looking at the listed films, I cannot see where he is mentioned on some and the others I do find him in are not supported by the sources used. A WP:BEFORE finds no significant coverage. There is also some FAKEREFerences used such as those for the awards. The one he apparently won does NOT show the award won, only lists his name as a nomination. CNMall41 (talk) 02:17, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Keep. He is the lyricist of many songs and found some articles (reliable like Gaana, some aren't) [4] [5] [6]. Add citation needed to the award in question. DareshMohan (talk) 02:58, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, I cannot find a reference to support the award so a citation needed tag would not suffice. The other references are not reliable. The first is a redaction of what was posted on Instagram, the second is WP:NEWSORGINDIA, and the third is all quotes from the subject (it also shows a byline but posted by Odisha Diary Bureau which indicates it could be a paid placement - not assuming it is but not the strongest of sources). --CNMall41 (talk) 18:44, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Kaoli Isshiki

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Fails WP:SIGCOV. No significant coverage in any of the sources. Two of the three cited sources don't even mention the subject, and the one source that does simply lists her as one of several singers in a chamber choir (she is one of four singers in the soprano section). 4meter4 (talk) 01:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I looked as promised, don't know yet. Solo appearance at the BBC Proms is at least something. I added some external links to check out. Her repertoire seems off the beaten track, plenty contemporary, and we might want to support that. I found the ref from which most of the article was taken and reworded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
adding: the French article has 24 references. I guess that some are those I also found (now in external links). Will look closer tomorrow, but someone knowing French might be more more successful. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:21, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I haven't looked at those yet, but the English article is now referenced. For me, she is notable enough, having made interesting recordings, with notable ensembles and conductors, and only favourable reviews. She is not a diva-type soprano: that should not be a reason to delete. The article serves many links to music that is not normally in focus, both Baroque as contemporary. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For the French sources, I need help to not misread the French:
1. [7] This Le Monde article says that she won a prize.
2. [8] This is a more detailed review of her singing (not just "outstanding").
3. [9] recital
4. [10] recording --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gerda Arendt I don't think this in-depth enough to meet WP:SIGCOV. The last source is selling her CD and is not independent or significant coverage. The prod-s.com website also lacks independence. The Le Monde article spends half a sentence on her, and is a smaller not all that notable prize. The main prize went to another performer, Richard Rittelman, who deservedly is the focus of that article. Only the anaclase.com source approaches significant coverage (and honestly it isn't long enough to be considered in-depth as it devotes less than a paragraph of the article to her performance). Laurent Cuniot is the main subject of that article not Isshiki. There's not enough here to pass WP:NSINGER or WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO.4meter4 (talk) 21:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is Wikipedia only for those who win first prize? - This is a performer of several unusual recordings, and performances in Paris, Brussels, Proms, ... - Aldeburgh could be added. - Deborah Sasson was kept, but achieved less in the music world. She knew how to attract the press, however. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt This has nothing to do with the evaluating the worth of prize winners, but evaluating the quality of coverage of Kaoli Isshiki in sources. A half sentence of text is not significant coverage, and if the award were significant we would expect more coverage in independent media or academic publications. We can only build articles based on our notability guidelines which requires that we support articles with extant sources that contain significant coverage. That does mean that what journalists and academics choose to pay attention to directly impacts the types of articles we can create because we can't engage in WP:Original Research. That is both a limitation and a strength of writing on wikipedia. The fact that you have yet to locate any sources directly about Isshiki where she is the primary subject indicates that she isn't notable for wikipedia's purposes. This indicates that a journalist or an academic researcher needs to do some work before we can have an article and it is WP:TOOSOON for wikipedia to write on this person.4meter4 (talk) 22:34, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe that our coverage should depend on one reviewer's or academic's personal attention or lack of that, when her contributions to music are facts. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:45, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Liz, could you please notify relevant projects, such as Opera and Women (in Music, in Red), - Song is not relevant. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:48, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tarita Botsman

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Tagged for BLP sourcing issues since 2022. Article is largely cited to primary and non-independent sources. Not clear that the subject meets WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO, or WP:SINGER. 4meter4 (talk) 02:53, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Mary Movsisyan

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Fails WP:SIGCOV. Article is cited to unreliable sources like YouTube, or to sources connected directly with the subject. I could not locate any independent source with significant coverage. 4meter4 (talk) 02:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Moribund Oblivion

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Tagged for years as possibly not notable. Turkish article also has no cites Chidgk1 (talk) 12:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Nothing suggests notability, just the usual self-published.TheLongTone (talk) 13:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've added some cites, including an RS stating it's the only Turkish band in the black metal genre to garner international attention. Thus the subject may well meet WP:MUSICBIO. There appear to be several reviews online - particularly in German, in specialist ezines. I will look for more sources when I get time. ResonantDis_tortion 15:46, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Furthermore, this band also has a profile page in Rock Hard, which is an WP:RSMUSIC, featuring multiple album reviews and articles (even if paywalled). See this link. I've added citations to the article. Other album reviews include [11] and [12]. With these - and the book citation - there's enough coverage to presume notability. ResonantDis_tortion 18:42, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep in view of the multiple reliable sources identified above and those added to the article since nomination. There is now evidence of significant coverage in multiple reliable sources so that WP:GNG is passed and deletion is unnecessary in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 22:30, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Dušica Bijelić

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Article is cited almost entirely to non-independent sources; mainly to theaters employing the subject. Not clear the subject passes WP:SIGCOV. Additionally, the roles currently listed in the article are all insignificant comprimario parts. We need to see better more significant roles, and those roles covered in independent sources, to pass WP:NACTRESS and WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 00:45, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Given the subject's roles and the ensembles they've performed in c6 of wp:Musicbio might apply in which case WP:SIGCOV may exist. Therefore, I would explore WP:AFT before taking a position.𝔓^420°𝔓^Holla 08:46, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

JZyNO

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Subject charted but WP:NMUSICIAN does not guarantee notability. It still comes down to sourcing. There is nothing I can find in-depth about the subject that would be consdiered reliable. There is also a lot of press and churnalism such as this and this which are regurgitations of the same thing published on the same day but different publications. The Billboard reference only verifies the charting which was done on a collaboration with another artist. CNMall41 (talk) 00:55, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Strong keep, so glad this made it here Thank you so much CNMall41. Before going into sourcing and notability, I have started using my alt account for reviving (mostly African) articles I feel like the subject is notable and deleted under WP:G5. After this, I'm moving on to reviving Pabi Cooper.

With that being said, yes, I do agree that only 2 source are the same which is what publications like MSN and allAfrica do, they "re-publish" what's already out there and credit the publisher. The subject did chart on the Billboard U.S. Afrobeats Songs,^[1] and again on the UK Afrobeats Singles Chart.^[2] Keep in mind that he is credited as the primary artist on the song per media notes.^[3] JZyNO has been subject of the news multiple times here,^[4] and here,^[5] just to mention a few. He was also nominated for multiple Liberia Music Awards.^[6]^[7] and Telecel Ghana Music Award at the 25th edition (2024).^[8] This nomination is based on the two identical sources, charting collaboration (not sure what's wrong with that tho), and sourcing lacking depth. The cited references above are enough to sum up clear WP:SIGCOV as they are in depth and the subject do pass WP:MUSICBIO and WP:GNG as they have been the subject of multiple secondary reliable sources. Starting to wonder if the nominator performed WP:BEFORE. dxneo (talk) 02:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do realize that having a page you created sent to deletion can be frustrating, however please WP:AGF. Saying that you "wonder if the nominator performed a WP:BEFORE" is a veiled accusation that I lack the competency to properly review a page for notability. This is not away to get your contention across in a deletion discussion. I will respond to your notability points in a minute once I look through the sources you provided. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:03, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As stated in the nomination, charting does not grant inherent notability for a musician under WP:NMUSICIAN. The wording is "may be notable," not "is" notable. For the awards, they are nominations, not wins so not even relevant for WP:MUSICBIO. The first two sources you pointed out only verify charting. They are not significant, just verification. Three is from Apple Music so this cannot be used for notability. The fourth and seventh are the two I pointed out that are WP:CHURNALISM. Five is an interview and six and eight are just verifications of his award nominations. I see no significant coverage. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:12, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, my apologies for that earlier statement. However, respectfully, it really looks like you are not familiar with WP:MUSICBIO as it states that "8. Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammis award." So I don't know what you mean when you say "nominations are not relevant." You then said "charting is not inherent," what's there to inherit when it's his song? (rhetorical question) Those sources are in-depths, this is not a GA standard article, it's somewhere between Start and Stub-class, hope you understand. Apple Music source is for verifying that the subject is the primary artist. Those reliable sources clearly discuss the subject where he's from and so on,which is what's most important. (SIGCOV) Trying to dismiss the sources by saying "they are just…" is not the way to go, because I was radequately eferencing every statement. Again, the subject clearly pass WP:GNG, as they have been the subject of multiple secondary reliable sources. dxneo (talk) 05:53, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I realize it is frustrating, but please be WP:CIVIL. Are the awards he was nominated for one of those mentioned? If not, the WP:ONUS would be on you to show they are considered a "music major award." So yes, those nominations are irrelevant. I also never stated that "charting is not inherent" so do not misquote me as it could mislead the closing admin. I said that charting does not give inherent notability. You keep saying the coverage is significant but have not shown how. Saying it "clearly passes WP:GNG" is a fallacy by assertion at this point without being able to demonstrate how interviews, churnalism, and simply verifications are considered significant coverage. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Still don't know why you keep saying be CIVIL, as if I'm using foul language, this is a discussion and I'm participating. Not everyone can be nominated for the Grammys, and thousands are notable without a Grammy nomination. However, every country/region got their major awards. Example, in South Africa, we have multiple awards organizations which are considered major, something like South African Music Awards. Every region got their own alternatives. U.S. got Grammys, Canada got Junos, and so on. Hope you understand. dxneo (talk) 06:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So he has won an award, and went on to lead the nomination list with 7 nods, that's amazing. dxneo (talk) 08:00, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like nomination to me. "Artist of the Year" (Singluar) shows him second so more like a nomination. Regardless, it is still only verification, not significant coverage. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:14, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have not addressed any of the concerns brought up in my last reply. Once you are able to do so I will be happy to opine. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:14, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay mate, let me try to break it down maybe we will understand each other. I will also quote the guidelines so that no one has to go back and fourth trying to verify.

In your own words you said "Are the awards he was nominated for one of those mentioned? If not, the WP:ONUS would be on you to show they are considered a "music major award."" WP:ONUS states that "not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article, and other policies may indicate that the material is inappropriate." With that being said, I would say that nominations are accolades, and accolades do improve the quality of the article as #8 of WP:MUSICBIO states that "Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammis award. Note that this requires the person or band to have been the direct recipient of a nomination in their own name, and is not passed by playing as a session musician on an album whose award citation was not specifically for that person's own contributions," where as the subject is the direct recipient here.
Again, in your own words you went on to say that "So yes, those nominations are irrelevant. I also never stated that "charting is not inherent" so do not misquote me as it could mislead the closing admin," but earlier you said that charting does not grant inherent notability. So I have two questions. First, why did you say the nominations are irrelevant when MUSICBIO says otherwise? Secondly, since charting is a requirement to pass notability per MUSICBIO, why do you want to strike it out?
Moving on to WP:GNG which includes WP:SIGCOV. "Significant coverage addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. this source covers the upbringing of the subject in detail, football, how he got into music and how he moved from one country to another. Yes, you may argue that it was an interview, but information is most reliable when it's coming from the primary source and artists are often interviewed including high profiles like Rihanna and I bet that you'd never second guess a Rihanna interview, so why question this one? And in this case, the interview comes from a secondary reliable source (BBC). This source tells you his full name, when and where he was born, including his ancestry. With those two sources you can sum up SIGCOV.
Subject of multiple secondary reliable sources. The subject is Liberian with Ghanaian and Nigerien ancestry. However, he was the subject of the news in South Africa, which states that he has won 4 out of 7 awards. He was covered by Billboard in the US, and again by Vanguard in Nigeria, not to mention his native publications.

All of the above mentioned sources are reliable (and highlited green) So, last question, which WP:GNG requirement was not met here? dxneo (talk) 20:57, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not refer to me as mate. As far as the WP:WALLOFTEXT, I will sum it up like this - You quoted policy which states "Significant coverage addresses the topic directly and in detail." I will concede the references address him directly. What you have not provide evidence of is how they cover him "in detail." The mentions are verification, the others churnalism, another an interview. At this point, the discussion is becoming ad nauseam. I will leave it for closers to determine.--CNMall41 (talk) 00:01, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK. dxneo (talk) 01:07, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

References

^ Zellner, Xander (2023-11-15). "10 First-Timers on Billboard's Charts This Week: Matt Rogers, Mark Mothersbaugh, Kelsey Hart & More". Billboard. Retrieved 2024-10-14.
^ "BUTTA MY BREAD". Official Charts Company. 2023-11-25. Retrieved 2024-10-14.
^ "Butta My Bread by JZyNO on Apple Music", Apple Music, 7 April 2023, retrieved 2024-10-15{{citation}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
^ "Singer-songwriter JZyNO debuts with 'Butta My Bread'". Vanguard. 3 July 2023. Retrieved 14 October 2024.
^ DJ Edu (16 February 2024). "JZyNO: Liberian singer on Butta My Bread success". BBC UK. Retrieved 15 October 2024.
^ "MTN Liberia Music Awards announces nominees". Vaultz News. 27 September 2021. Retrieved 15 October 2024.
^ "JZyNO, UMG Artist becomes first Liberian musician to gain global attention". The Sun. 4 July 2023. Retrieved 15 October 2024.
^ "TGMA 2024 winners list: Stonebwoy beat King promise and odas to win artiste of di year". BBC News Pidgin. BBC News. 2024-06-01. Retrieved 2024-10-14.

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Artists, Bands and musicians, Arts, Music, Africa, Ghana, and Liberia. dxneo (talk) 02:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Giant walls of text just discourage participation from others. Both of you need to calm down and let others participate so we can come to a consensus on what to do. Editor(s) who wish to keep the article - can you please give a concise explanation of your WP:THREE? Sergecross73 msg me 02:14, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. The subject of this article meets criterion 1 and 2 of MUSICBIO. He is a Liberian artist who has received some coverage in Front Page Africa, which can be seen here, here and here. He has also recevied coverage in Pulse Nigeria, This Day newspaper, Vanguard, and in the BBC, despite the latter source being a primary source. Moreover, he has been discussed in the Lusaka Times and Nairobi News. He won and has been nominated for the MTN Liberia Music Awards, which is considered the biggest music award show in Liberia. He was nominated five times at the award's 2020 edition and won two awards in the 2023 edition. As previously stated, his song "Butta My Bread" charted on the Billboard Afrobeats song chart and the UK Afrobeats singles chart. Per this article, he is the first Liberian artist to gain global attention and is currently signed to Universal Music Group. Per the BBC article, his song "Butta My Bread" has received 160 million streams and is Liberia's biggest Afrobeats song. His song charting on two national music charts along with the sources I have mentioned here should be sufficient for a weak keep. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 16:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Everything you described is what would be considered inherent notability in my opinion. Again, the notability guideline does not say he "is" notable for charting. It says he "may" be notable. The sources are all verification of claims, not significant or in-depth about the artist. We also need to be careful about using sources like this since they are not reliable. --CNMall41 (talk) 01:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How's it not reliable when it was never assessed at WP:RS/N? dxneo (talk) 01:50, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not the way it works. A soruce does not have to go to RSN to be determined unreliable. Similar to how a reference does not have to go to RSN to be considered reliable. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:27, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Sufficient here to meet WP:MUSICBIO, including charting, and secondary coverage, and a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a ~~national~~ international radio network (i.e. BBC World Service). Also I disagree about the WP:RS BBC article being classed primary; yes it includes quotes, but also includes secondary text and analysis and biographical information under a journalistic byline. ResonantDis_tortion 19:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are there other sources (other than the claim of BBC) that you would consider reliable and covers the subject in detail (not just verification of claims of charting or award nominations)?--CNMall41 (talk) 01:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just let other editors assess the subject 'cause would BBC and Billboard "claim" someone charted when they didn't, and why would those awards be claims? [rhetorical question] dxneo (talk) 02:19, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is why the question was posed to the editor making the vote. Unless you are able to speak for them, please stop muddying up the discussion with WALLSOFTEXT.--CNMall41 (talk) 18:23, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I'd like to see more evaluation of the sources presented in this discussion since we have some disagreement. I will say at this point that I see no support for deleting this article.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:30, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source assessment - Here you go, @Liz:. Would be happy to evaluate any additional source you feel is in dispute. --CNMall41 (talk) 04:02, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mynewsgh.com - No byline and site has no editorial oversight listed. Likely churnalism or a paid placement. Regardless, it is a rehash of what the subject posted on Twitter so in addition to being unreliable, this specific source in no way could be considered WP:INDEPENDENT.
All Africa, this is a churnalism piece that was reprinted from FrontPage Agrica (see below).
FrontPage Africa, using an archive link since the original is no longer published on that website. Written by "FPA Staff Reporter" which is not bylined. However, other news articles such as the first one on the home page are bylined. This usually indicates it is a placement and given the tone it is more likely a press release.
BBC, great interview but it is just that....an interview. Not independent. All but five of the 17 paragraphs contain quotes. No independent journalism here.
Vanguard, while the publication has editorial oversight, this is yet another one that has no byline. Given this about selling paid article placements (yes, a separate fee so that it is not marked "sponsored content"), I would not see this as independent.
Billboard, good publication but this is only verification that he collaborated with another artist and that song debuted at No. 50 on the Billboard U.S. Afrobeats Songs. There is two sentences about him so not in-depth or indepdnent journalism. I will point out again that WP:NMUSICIAN does not make someone inherently notable for charting. The wording says "may be notable" but they still need significant coverage. Simply having a mention in a reputable publication does NOT show notability.
Official Charts, again, just shows chart positioning.
BBC, just lists his name as a nominee right below the actual winner of the award.
FrontPage Africa, forgot to add this which was brought up above. Completely unreliable as written by a "contributor" as opposed to other articles you can find on the site with full bylines. More paid placement. --CNMall41 (talk) 04:06, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You forgot IOL. Product of WP:ANYBIO. dxneo (talk) 04:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I forgot that piece of churnalism which states - "According to a statement sent to media, this newest musical venture sets the stage for a “lively and immersive experience”." Not independent. --CNMall41 (talk) 04:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And again, WP:ANYBIO does not say a person "IS" notable for meeting one of the criteria. It says "LIKELY." --CNMall41 (talk) 04:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm done defending this. Charts are obviously for positions. According to you, all of the above-mentioned reliable sources are not independent. Now the awards and nominations are not to be considered? I'm so done. dxneo (talk) 05:11, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have reviewed my !vote in the light of what appears, for no obvious reason, to be a rather strident AfD discussion. The article subject has had a significant segment on national level radio, has charted in multiple countries, and has also been nominated, or won, awards at a national level in 2 countries. All of these are "ticks" per WP:MUSICBIO that are verified by sources which are very much independent of the subject, and are cited in the article. We appear to have, at minimum, enough for a Start-level article. Consequently a presumption of notability may be made and I stand by my keep !vote. ResonantDis_tortion 16:45, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I respect you taking the time to go through everything. I just want to say that presumption of notability is not notable. We have presumed notability based on those ticks but I still do not see the significant coverage (only verification sources). MUSICBIO says "may" be notable for these things, not that they "are" notable. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Feli Ferraro

AfDs for this article:

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Was previously soft-deleted after an AfD in May, and it appears all the same issues discussed there still apply. Both the nominator and sole voter in that AfD called for deletion, and I'd be surprised if anyone would've countered it had there been more participation. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 10:06, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Hello! I started this page a while back and have continued working on this page. I did not chime in when the page was previously put up for deletion as I wholeheartedly agreed with the reasoning for deletion: the only mention of the subject not from a publishing body she was signed to/managed by was in passing in one article (that has since been removed as it was from a pseudo-blog owned by the label who released the song it discussed), and while she has continued to craft hits of all sizes (she is a songwriter), there were no awards at the time to further prove notability. However, much has changed since the deletion, as Q3 2023-2024 has been a banner season for her career:

(1) A Billboard magazine article ([13]) discussing an elite writing camp her publishing company put together (of 11 members) that has since appeared on virtually every K-pop album that has broken through in the United States market (nicknamed "the Hit Factory"). Not only does she appear in the cover photo and additional photos, but the article mentions her past and present placements as well as a few mentions of personal life.

(2) A songwriting award (win) from BMI - arguably the largest songwriting/publishing governance organization, as the song she co-wrote was ranked in the top 20 of pop songs in the past year based on radio airplay, club play, live performances, and TV commercial placements.

(3) A songwriting award (nomination) for "Wild Ones" - a large country-pop single (2x Platinum) this year that is already being discussed in several Grammy award songwriting and performance categories (to be announced next month in November).

(4) She has since co-written/produced virtually an entire major label album (female rapper Coi Leray's COI), receiving her first Billboard Top 10 single as a writer, as well as several songs with David Guetta that became hits in the European / Australian markets. Trainsskyscrapers (talk 15:32, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Connecticut. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 10:06, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:21, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Notified: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music#Nomination of Feli Ferraro for deletion. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 18:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 10:44, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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El Taiger

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I can't find any significant coverage from independent and reliable sources.

the topic of the article seems not to comply with WP:SINGER, not WP:WEB, and just looking at the page shows that it also lacks WP:SIGCOV in WP:RS to comply with WP:GNG Pitille02 (talk) 05:26, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 October 12. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 05:38, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Cuba, and Florida. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:40, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. For precisely the reasons presented in the nomination. Regards, BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 06:14, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. There is significant coverage. There is a BBC article [14]. There is also coverage before death, in 2022, for instance [15][16][17] He seems a prominent artist. BilboBeggins (talk) 07:18, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The BBC source is about his death, while the others are press releases about an album and tour. Not significant independent coverage. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 16:56, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We don't need the sources and significabt coverage to be before death of a person. BBC article has significant coverage, it has biography. There are also Cuban sources feom before his death. BilboBeggins (talk) 08:29, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. as the article looks now, there is no encyclopedic significance at all. If kept, reliable sources need to me added to the article for notability. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:00, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
First I want to mention that the article's notability is about the notability of the topic and amount of significant coverage, not the contents of the article. Second, I added contents. BilboBeggins (talk) 08:30, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No significant media coverage of his music career, only his death. Death does not automatically establish notability. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 16:49, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Article in Billboard covers his music career: "One of the most popular Cubaton artists (a genre that fuses reggaeton with traditional Cuban rhythms), El Taiger is known for his Cuban-rooted urban sound heard in songs such as “La Historia,” “El Papelito” and “Habla Matador.”" [18] BilboBeggins (talk) 08:38, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There are reliable sources and there were more more sources, some from reliable sites, which were taken out of the article. Also, the nominator did not tell me about the nomination. Jeanette Lalo Camacho Martin (si?) 19:50, 12 October, 2024 (UTC)
Delete: A quick online search suggests that subject's death is the only source of significant coverage and, therefore, not "highly significant" according to WP:1E. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 20:30, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not the only source of coverage, there are sources about his works [19] BilboBeggins (talk) 08:39, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also Independent article is before his death, it has significant coverage, so it's not One Event case [20]. BilboBeggins (talk) 09:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
BilboBeggins WP:BLUDGEON. And for your persistent claims that any notable coverage of the subject existed before his death, it's still not in the article. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 17:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a problem that some votes do not use argumentation based on facts, I want to stress this fact.

I added into article a 2017 Billboard reference about his song featured on the soundtrack of Fate of the Furious, breaking film. On this page I mentioned 2022 references. The Independent article is also technically before his death. There is also an article from today, so the coverage does not stop.

Reliable sources call artist famous in Cuba.

There are articles in BBC, Independent, ET about him. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:42, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I cannot find any source that can be suitable for this article, just promotional content and profiles. 181.197.42.215 (talk) 17:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC) Striking sock !vote. Daniel (talk) 22:23, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep - it seems the subject accomplished enough as a musician to pass the notability guideline, but at the same time the fact that so many of the referances in the article are about his death seems to be problematic. This source seems to cover his life more in-depth, will look for other references. It does at the moment seem that most of the citations fail WP:NOTNEWS. Inter&anthro (talk) 01:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I've added some content and references from sources that precede his death. Hopefully the article now passes WP:GNG. Inter&anthro (talk) 02:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Thanks for the input. However, content about his religion, family members or his legal issues doesn't explain why the subject is notable as a musician. His discography has no articles, nor is there evidence of any awards or chart/notable label activity. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 03:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  He collaborated with Enrique Iglesias and was part of the soundtrack of Fate of hhe Furious.
  
  This content prives that there is significant coverage.
  
  "His discography has no articles" — I am not sure what that means. There are sources fir his works. If you mean that there are no separate articles on his albums, it's not required. BilboBeggins (talk) 22:37, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 05:55, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I think this discussion needs further consideration. First, the nominator is a very new editor who didn't inform the article creator. Also, it would be helpful to see a source review, especially given the additions by Inter&anthro to the article. As AFD regulars know, we don't base deletion decisions on the condition of the article at the time of the discussion but on the notabiity of the article subject. Sources do not have to be added to the article, they can be brought into this discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:38, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Madelyn Renée

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Does not meet WP:GNG--the sole cited source barely mentions Renée, in the context of her relationship with Luciano Pavarotti, but there is no mention of her at that article nor is it clear how WP:DUE that would be. Searching online, I was able to find other brief mentions of Renee as Pavarotti's girlfriend (e.g. [21]) and interviews with her (e.g. [22], [23]) but nothing that provides secondary coverage of her life, career, etc. As written, the article is essentially a promotional resume with zero basis in available sources, and apparently with outright COI editing based on an assessment of the page's history. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 15:46, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Massachusetts. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 15:46, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: to the Pavarotti article. I couldn't find anything substantive myself. Ravenswing 16:23, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment She also performs as Madelyn Monti and there is some early news as Madelyn Renee Levy. The most substantial coverage I have found is a 2008 piece from the New York Times [[24]] DaffodilOcean (talk) 21:43, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Very weak keep based on the 2008 NY Times article and many other sources I can see online. However, there’s also lot of unflattering information about her out here and there on Google that might implicate BLP. If we were actually neutral in POV, she might want the whole thing removed. Be careful of what you ask for. Bearian (talk) 02:45, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:45, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep based on the NYT article and other sources, but will require a substantial rewrite to remove WP:PROMOTIONAL sounding material and ensure all material is sourced. 🌸⁠wasianpower⁠🌸 (talk • contribs) 19:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Reel Tight

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Most definitely fails WP:GNG TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 16:34, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Tennessee. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:12, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and merge text from Back to the Real. Caro7200 (talk) 18:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly makes it notable though? Looking at the sources for the other page, half of the sources appear to be dead, one is just a wikipedia self citation, and one simply just confirms that the album exists. TeapotsOfDoom (talk) 00:31, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reel Weak Keep, and use sources from the article for their lone album Back to the Real, which strangely is more developed than the band's article. Though I don't have access to the true chart pages at Billboard, their album made a small dent in the R&B charts and they had two mid-level hit singles. They got some minor coverage back in the day for being discovered by Warren G, as seen in a source used at the album article. This is reel close though, and I won't argue with anyone who votes differently. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:25, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Ali Dee Theodore

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Previously Expired PROD. concern was: "Insufficient coverage in reliable sources; accomplishments relate to his company, not him, so he is not notable under WP:NMUSIC"—that still stands. This is just a largely unsourced database entry, and the provided sources do not talk about him but are generic product listing/database entries. Unless new & better sources are introduced, this individual does not appear to have enough sig, in-depth coverage. X (talk) 13:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and New York. Shellwood (talk) 14:06, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: ~~Bands and musicians,~~ Businesspeople~~, and New York~~. Skynxnex (talk) 14:08, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Agree that the article as it stands could do with better sources - and quite a lot of work on formatting - but a quick google shows that he is notable enough and covered in news articles, Billboard magazine, etc. that qualifies him for inclusion. His music has been used a LOT in films, which makes him pretty notable. I don't have time to spend on improving it now but would like to come back to it if nobody else does. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 08:35, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. I would get rid of all of those long lists and just keep a selection of notable films. Else could draftify until it is up to standard. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 08:37, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify: I can't see sigcov of him personally (eg: for Billboard [25][26][27]), the format is totally unsuitable, and it's not clear at all to me what is significant. For example, He-man and the Masters of the Universe credits him for "title music" on IMDB, but when you dig he's not the main composer and there's a lot of people credited for title music[28][29]; there's no info on Hawkeye's December the 24[30]; he's in as an executive music producer for a season of Alvinnn!!! And the Chipmunks but not as composer[31][32]; he's third credited name on Underdoggs' See Me Rock It[33]. The only criterion that he looks to maybe pass is WP:NMUSIC#10 but it's likely to require a lot of digging to establish the evidence for this and to cut his article down to noteworthy works. ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 07:08, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Mr Raw

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Article fails WP:NMUSIC, there is some material online about him but none of it mentions things needed to support notability. Dr vulpes (Talk) 03:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Nigeria. Dr vulpes (Talk) 03:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: What? Reading Beans 08:44, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The subject passed ~~WP:MUSIC~~ WP:CREATIVE. He has released three different albums, he is a notable representative of Igbo raps with enough collaboration with other notable musicians. He also has reliable coverages for verifiability some of which are 1, 2, 3.Ibjaja055 (talk) 09:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey @Ibjaja055 so the sources you provided don't support notability as per WP:NMUSIC. But there might be sources in Igbo, do you know where I might be able to find them? I'm not an expert on Igbo or Nigeria so if you could point me in the right direction I'll try to find some sources and add them in. If you think there are offline sources then we can just send this to draft until they can be added.

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Dr_vulpes
Premium Times	~ Looks to be independent but it's hard to tell.	Appears to be reliable after reading a few other articles	Article is 177 words and mentions that he has views on music piracy. Claims he's won awards but doesn't mention them	? Unknown
Daily Post	I'm not 100% sure but from reading some random articles it appears to be	Articles have writers and appear to be reporting properly.	Article is 125 words long and is about Mr Raw getting a shout out on Instagram	✘ No
Daily Trust	Appears to be, not 100% sure but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt	Has other articles that appear to be	Entry in the article is under his old man and is only 119 words	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Dr vulpes (Talk) 15:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dr_vulpes Thank you for your prompt reply and I am also sorry for my late reply too. The sources I provided establish that the subject is a prominent figure in Igbo rap, and successors have acknowledged this by referencing him. The citations in the article may not fully meet the criteria of WP:GNG but they should be sufficient to pass the WP:SNG for WP:CREATIVE
The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors; The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique.
Therefore, Mr Raw is an important figure of Igbo rap creative community and he is even the one credited with creating the new concept (Igbo rap). Ibjaja055 (talk) 10:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete : No other coverage to proof notable than being hospitalized due to a car accident. The rest news are interviews.--7G🍁 (🪓) 11:11, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Comment: @Ibjaja055, that seems like a good reason to keep the article but do you have any sources saying that (i.e. that he originated Igbo rap or is an important figure)? That is what I usually see asked for in these discussions, and I think it would be helpful. I see he says it in a source from the Igbo rap article but I can't find anyone other than him saying it explicitly. Mrfoogles (talk) 06:56, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mrfoogles Thank you very much. This is the source of another important figure in Igbo Rap confirming that Mr Raw pioneered it Ibjaja055 (talk) 07:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is a quote from someone else rather than the newspaper saying it directly, though (although its adjacent). This article also credits him as a pioneer, although it does seem rather promotional of its (not him) subject, but that could likely be just an enthusiastic journalist. This other article seems to have a good account of the origins of Igbo rap but is a 404 and not in the internet archive. Mrfoogles (talk) 15:18, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And actually here’s another article, oddly enough also talking about another person doing Igbo rap. Mrfoogles (talk) 15:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, based on the widespread consideration as the pioneer of a music genre. Mrfoogles (talk) 15:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pioneer of a what music genre.? Phyno is the Pioneer of Igbo Rap. Mr Raw was just also an igbo rapper. We cant justify a musician from naming thierself a title [34]. We need more of independent source to justify that than relying on interviews. 7G🍁 (🪓) 14:56, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@7G, What’s your source for this claim? Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 19:11, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Before Phyno, Mr. Raw was. This source confirms it, https://thenet.ng/enugu-world-phyno-become-igbolands-biggest-rap-export/. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 19:19, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can reply without mentioning my name. It’s then left for me to ignore you. They are more notification on my phone to attend than this @7g on Wikipedia. 7G🍁 (🪓) 21:05, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Per Ibjaja and Mrfoogle. Also, this piece from Nigeria Entertainment Today and this from P.M. News. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 19:20, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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References

[1] Zellner, Xander (2023-11-15). "10 First-Timers on Billboard's Charts This Week: Matt Rogers, Mark Mothersbaugh, Kelsey Hart & More". Billboard. Retrieved 2024-10-14.

[2] "BUTTA MY BREAD". Official Charts Company. 2023-11-25. Retrieved 2024-10-14.

[Apple-3] "Butta My Bread by JZyNO on Apple Music", Apple Music, 7 April 2023, retrieved 2024-10-15{{citation}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

[4] "Singer-songwriter JZyNO debuts with 'Butta My Bread'". Vanguard. 3 July 2023. Retrieved 14 October 2024.

[5] DJ Edu (16 February 2024). "JZyNO: Liberian singer on Butta My Bread success". BBC UK. Retrieved 15 October 2024.

[6] "MTN Liberia Music Awards announces nominees". Vaultz News. 27 September 2021. Retrieved 15 October 2024.

[7] "JZyNO, UMG Artist becomes first Liberian musician to gain global attention". The Sun. 4 July 2023. Retrieved 15 October 2024.

[8] "TGMA 2024 winners list: Stonebwoy beat King promise and odas to win artiste of di year". BBC News Pidgin. BBC News. 2024-06-01. Retrieved 2024-10-14.

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Bands and musicians

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