Talk:2007 Atlantic hurricane season/Archive 4

Sandbox articles: Ingrid, Jerry, Karen and Melissa

I have started to work on the four remaining named storms without articles, since the the TCR's are now available on three of them. Ingrid and Jerry are written, Melissa I am going to start soon and Karen I am awaiting the TCR. They are located here: Ingrid, Jerry, Melissa - CrazyC83 04:13, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Any ideas on how to expand them? Did any of them set/break any records? Maybe the naming history could be given in the impact section (to form impact and naming), though I know some users don't like that idea. For Ingrid, this unofficial report from Stormcarib.net indicates the remnants brought some brief heavy rainfall to Antigua. This report from St. Martin that over 1.5 inches of rain fell, which caused some flooding. It's not much, but a little impact is better than nothing. I don't think any impact exists for any of the others, though. Hurricanehink (talk) 19:48, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

No records were broken by Ingrid, Jerry or Karen. Melissa tied a monthly record for tropical storm activity in September (will be included when I write that one). As for impact, good find on Ingrid (maybe Karen will have the same too). Definitely no land impact by Jerry or Melissa - both were clearly overtaken by another system long before their remnants hit land. CrazyC83 22:46, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Melissa now written. Awaiting the TCR of Karen (probably with the upgrade to a hurricane) to complete the project. When ready it will be written here. CrazyC83 03:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm a cranky old-timer just spinning my wheels, but I still think all this research you're doing for these new articles would be better served adding to the main article. No one has yet given me a good reason as to why an article for every storm is a good idea. The whole point of the main article is to present information about the season and its storms. Seperate articles are for when the amount of information exceeds what we can reasonably put in summary form. For storms like Ingrid, Jerry, Karen and Melissa, there is little beyond the storm history and that belongs in the main article. I'd like to see at least one, preferably two, 2-paragraph sections other than storm history. If you can give me that, I will back off, guaranteed. All we've been doing for these piece-of-crap storms is basically copying the storm history from the NHC report and saying that there was no impact. That's it. CrazyC83, tell me something about Tropical Storm Ingrid that would not belong anywhere but in an Ingrid article. Alas, I now appear to be the lone ranger on this issue. This was the reason I distanced myself from the hurricane articles. A couple of years ago, I nearly left Wikipedia because the newer users were so belligerant on this issue (among others). -- §HurricaneERICarchive 20:03, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm with you Eric. If the only thing you can put for impact is that it didn't affect land then I don't see the need for the article ---CWY2190^TC 20:58, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

"...both before and after the official bounds..."

Under "Subtropical Storm Olga" is the following statement:

It is the first post-season storm since Tropical Storm Zeta in the 2005 season, making this season one of the few with activity both before and after the official bounds of the hurricane season.

While the first point is crystal clear, could there be some elaboration on the second? 147.70.254.180 (talk) 18:51, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

from what I can tell it means it's one of few seasons that had a storm before the official hurricane season and to have a storm during the post season. -- グリフオーザー (talk) 19:07, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Juliancolton (talk) 20:03, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

How do you edit an image?

Hi. If one were to update an image, on the NHC advisory image for example, how would they edit the image to upload the new one? Can someone give me detailed instructions, on how to take a public domain image from the Internet, and upload it under a currently existing filename? I need to know this in case I need to update an advisory or edit an image in the future. Yeah, I know, I should have learned that a long time ago, but I have no clue on this whatsoever. Do you click on upload file, and use the currently exsisting name or something? Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 22:53, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

If by "advisory" you're referring to the 5 day warning cone, we get them from the NHC website. Just go to nhc.noaa.gov and download the large version, then upload it by choosing "Upload a new version of this file". If it's hosted by Wikimedia Commons, you'll have to click on the link that says "description page there" to be taken to the image page on WC, and log in so that you can upload a new version. Select "work of a U.S. government agency", or whatever the equivalent description is, to properly label the image as public domain. DOSGuy (talk) 03:27, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Tropical storm Olga

Hold on, why was Tropical storm olga redirected already? I mean, come on, you didn't even give me a chance to finish it, as I was still working on it. Juliancolton (talk) 18:38, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It was poorly formatted, some parts were unsourced, and it didn't contain much information outside of the season article. If you'd like to collaborate, I told you earlier I was working on an article for Olga. A poorly-made article is not needed at the moment, particularly while it is active and the info is still coming in. --Hurricanehink (talk) 18:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Any better? Juliancolton (talk) 18:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Not particularly. Like I said before, you could collaborate with me, if you wished, as I plan on publishing my own sandbox. --Hurricanehink (talk) 19:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok. Juliancolton (talk) 19:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Also it wasn't correctly located; it was at Tropical storm Olga (2007), and should be at Tropical Storm Olga (2007) (always capitalized when used as part of a named storm). Admin would need to move it. CrazyC83 (talk) 03:22, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

When do you plan to publish your Olga sandbox? Juliancolton (talk) 13:57, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Waiting before the article appears to place the rainfall graphic for Olga anywhere. It is available. Thegreatdr (talk) 15:20, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Is there no article for Olga? This is a first, since members here are usually liberal and quick with storms and their individual articles. Dr. Masters mentioned that Olga is the deadliest December storm on record now with 22 dead. I thought by now Olga would have an article. Is there a sandbox version at least? SargeAbernathy (talk) 16:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

There is a sandbox. ---CWY2190^TC 17:42, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it is good enough to be moved over to Tropical Storm Olga (2007) now. CrazyC83 (talk) 03:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Okerydokery, it's published. --Hurricanehink (talk) 04:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Olga may have set a record

Olga is the deadliest off-season Atlantic storm since at least the 1930's and possibly the deadliest in recorded history. I thought I read somewhere that the 1932 May storm that hit Hispaniola killed 80 people but could find no record of it. This should definately be looked into. -- §HurricaneERICarchive 15:04, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Dates: UTC or EST?

Currently I have a little problem with Olga. The dates of its existence are from 10/2300 EDT to 12/2200 EDT. However, the UTC dates are from 11/0300 to 13/0300. A few edits just now changed the dissipation date to the 13th, which would be UTC, but the formation date was left as the 10th. A peek at a few other storms reveals alternating uses of ED/ST and UTC dates. What is the precident here? -- RattleMan (talk) 17:41, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

It should be UTC for dates, since that is what the NHC uses in their TCR's. --Hurricanehink (talk) 17:51, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Fixed Noel and Olga regarding UTC timing. Also, I fixed Erin's dissipation date; it should be the NHC's last advisory, not the HPC's last. -- RattleMan (talk) 18:01, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Nice job. Do we have a similar problem in other years, though? --Hurricanehink (talk) 18:27, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Whoa there on the Erin dissipation date. A tropical cyclone has not dissipated unless one of the national centers (NHC or HPC) no longer considers it a tropical cyclone. NHC normally follows HPC lead on these matters for inland tropical cyclones, regardless of the additional complexity involving Erin over Oklahoma. Last NHC advisory does not mean dissipation of a tropical cyclone which makes landfall in the lower 48, unless the advisory itself states dissipation. Remember, HPC advisories cover tropical cyclones and their remnants...NHC only hands them over to HPC if they are not expected to emerge back into water as a tropical cyclone in the near future. Basically, this means when NHC hands off a system to HPC, HPC becomes the RSMC in lieu of NHC. HPC is officially NHC's backup for tropical cyclone advisories as well. As far as the public and media are concerned, an HPC advisory has the same relevance as an NHC advisory, since they share the same header. Ultimately, this is another issue the TCR will clear up. Oy. Got RattleMan's okay to change the date back to the 19th for the time being. Thegreatdr (talk) 01:55, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Noel TCR

Its out...talks alot about heavy damage in Cuba...may mean we have a candidate for retirement http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pdf/TCR-AL162007_Noel.pdf Tfelts 21:21 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone edit the ACE calcs page? Weatherlover819 00:53 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Timeline

Does this article need a timeline? Seddon69 (talk) 21:24, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

It has one... -- RattleMan 09:05, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Season NOT Over-Round 2

The insanity starts again! Do we return it to current now that invest 95 is expexted to attain tropical characteristics? Juliancolton (talk) ^{(Happy New Year!)} 23:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

No! We discussed this with Olga, that it does not become current until NHC begins advisories. --♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:30, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to check. Juliancolton (talk) ^{(Happy New Year!)} 23:33, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

That's correct. Brief mention would be made on the 2008AHS page as well if it survives into 2008, but it would be a 2007 storm. CrazyC83 (talk) 01:03, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Watch for the NHC season summary in the next 2-3 months. We'll probably have to add this system into the article. Thegreatdr (talk) 01:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I also believe that they are going to reclassify olga's remnants as a TS when it went into the gulf. Juliancolton (talk) ^{(Happy New Year!)} 13:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Please avoid speculation here on the talk page (except for DR, who is actually a professional meteorologist). --♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:55, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

My bad. Shouldn't have typed what I typed on the season talk page, since it's not official yet. Thegreatdr (talk) 19:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

If Pablo forms...

If Pablo forms, will it be the longest Atlantic hurricane season recorded ever? Weatherlover819 (talk) 08:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I think not. 1952 Lasted from 2 Feb to 28 Oct. crandles (talk) 09:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, then, is it the second? Weatherlover819 (talk) 07:55, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Moot question, since we are Pabloless. --Golbez (talk) 18:08, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Felix TCR

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pdf/TCR-AL062007_Felix.pdf

Max intensity was 150 kt up from 145 kt during operations. ---CWY2190^TC 16:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I think I saw a season chart that said strongest storm by mininum pressure and by wind. Should that be used for 2007, too?Weatherlover819 (talk) 09:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Olga TCR

[1] Jason Rees (talk) 21:58, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Retirement

Does anyone know if any names have officially been submitted? -- §HurricaneERICarchive 02:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

No, but I think the WMO will retire Dean, Felix, and Noel. Definitely Felix, though.Weatherlover819 (talk) 05:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I haven't heard of any names being submitted, however, I am pretty sure that Dean, Felix, and Noel will be retired. There is also a slight chance of Erin and Olga being retired. ANDROS¹³³⁷ 23:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Even though there's an entire forum to discuss this at [2], I guess I can settle my thoughts here. As far as retirement is concerned, Dean, Felix, and Noel in the Atl. and Wipha and Sepat in the WPac are all goners. Erin and Olga, as well as Barbara, and Henriette all have slight chances, possibility wavering. The next highest are Chantal (due to Canada), Humberto, and Lorenzo, as well as Flossie, but those are marginal at best. Nothing else stands a shot. Now please, if you wish to discuss speculation as well as storms and retirement more, go to the above linked. Hurricane Angel Saki My own personal NHC

I asked for facts, not opinions. I just wanted to know if any had been formally submitted for retirement. -- §HurricaneERICarchive 19:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think they'll submit or mention names until the IHC is over, and that's March 7. I'd say expect a names list then. Hurricane Angel Saki My own personal NHC 11:10, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Meteo France have asked for FELIX and NOEL to be retired Meteo France Jason Rees (talk) 00:42, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like Dean is going to be made from elsewhere (Jamaica seems most likely, knowing Mexico's record), since I cannot see Dean staying on for 2013. I wouldn't change any links yet though, but whatever names get retired - once official - get (2007) taken off of them. CrazyC83 (talk) 17:13, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, Hurricane Stan of 2005 was retired, and Dean was far more damaging than Stan. Does anyone know what country requested Stan's retirement? Most of the deaths were in Guatemala, however, the death toll was largely indirect. So hurricanes doing significant damage in Mexico are not unheard of. Looking at Dean, Jamaica had the most damage, while Mexico had the most deaths. ANDROS¹³³⁷ 01:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Dean TCR

[3] Dean was a Cat 5 twice! And winds were upped to 175 mph and the pressure lowered to 905 (tying Camille (whose was probably much lower) and Mitch). A dropsonde measured a sustained surface wind gust of 203 mph! What an awesome storm! -- §HurricaneERICarchive 22:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

NHC track map

Erin's TCR hasn't been released yet, but the season track map is now up. [4] -- RattleMan 02:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Uploaded and put in the article. Juliancolton (Talk) 02:54, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

This is weird. Since when does the map come first. Where the hell is Erin? I'm not a patient man. -- §HurricaneERICarchive 22:38, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm with you, Hurricane ERIC. It is very weird how the map came out first. I e-mailed webmaster of NHC today to make sure.Weatherlover819 (talk) 07:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The NHC said that the final touches are being made in Erin, but the track is final.Weatherlover819 (talk) 23:27, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

About time they add the finishing touces. I say they should have just called it a TS over OK and be done with it. Juliancolton (Talk) 23:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

According to the track map, NHC decided it wasn't a tropical storm over land. -- §HurricaneERICarchive 19:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

They used the remnant low identifier, which is used for non-convective lows which were once tropical cyclones. An interesting choice, to say the least. Thegreatdr (talk) 20:35, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

So the definition of "landphoon" remains unused? =) Juliancolton (Talk) 20:40, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I noticed (from the NHC track map) that Erin could have been a TD at the end of her cycle. Weatherlover819 (talk) 23:54, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Tropical depressions are solid green on that track map. Dashed green, which on the map means "low," is traditionally reserved for convection-less lows. Needless to say, the report will be an interesting exercise in semantics. Glad I was forced to take that course in high school. =P Thegreatdr (talk) 02:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

But the dash there are longer than the others. Weatherlover819 (talk) 02:53, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh man, I e-mailed NHC Public Affairs and they said the TCR will be issued in several weeks. Oh, not to mention he/she told me that Erin's fatality count was at least 16. About 3~10 inches in TX, OK, and MO. Weatherlover819 (talk) 00:25, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

From NHC Public Affairs:

The TCR on T.S. Erin is still ongoing, but we hope to have it posted in several weeks. Erin and its remnants brought heavy rains to portions of Texas, Oklahoma and Missouri. In fact, storm-total rainfall amounts of 3 to 7 inches were common in many of these areas, with some locations receiving more than 10 inches. Media reports indicate there were at least 16 fatalities associated with Erin or its remnants, mostly due to inland flooding. Weatherlover819 (talk) 00:33, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Several weeks?! Ahhhh!!! Juliancolton ^{The storm still blows...} 01:16, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I wrote:

Hello.. I would like to know if you have a release date for Erin's TCR, because I didn't know it could take more than 6 months for a TCR to be released, unless they are long-lasting, deadly, and strong storms. Was Erin deadly, too? Thank you, I am sorry if it has bad grammar. Weatherlover819 (talk) 02:23, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I wouldnt be surprised if we didnt see the TCR until after the 2008 Seasons sarted as we have several events coming up in the next few weeks including the Hurricane Committee meeting and Easter. Jason Rees (talk) 23:13, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Post season reports

While we're waiting for the WMO meeting to occur, here are some post-season links, aside from the NHC ones.

• Reports from the 2007 Directors of Meteorological Services Meeting
• Canadian Hurricane Centre 2007 report
• Mexican reports
• NCDC is updated through November 30th, 2007

♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 05:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Most of the Mexican pictures and graphs come straight from us, including our famous track maps! CrazyC83 (talk) 00:02, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

HURDAT Updated and Miss Erin has a surprise...

NHC's HURDAT file has been updated for 2007 and it appears Erin was in fact a TS while inland, rather emphatically according to the HURDAT info. On August 19, Erin's wind speed jumped from 25 knots at 00Z to 50 knots on 06Z! It weakened to 35 kts at 12Z and didn't survive the night, but talk about going out with a bang! That's pretty cool. It may be the first time an ATL storm strengthened over land. I can't wait for the report. -- §HurricaneERICarchive 03:31, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

It has an L by it, which indicates remnant low per their interpretation guide, and their definition of a remnant low. If it had a *, it would be a tropical storm. A low pressure area with limited convection, per their definition. Erin fit that definition over Oklahoma, right? Their TCR for Erin will be a fun/frustrating/politically revealing read. NHC is simply amazing. Thegreatdr (talk) 05:44, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm still disappointed they didn't include that storm in December. At least the last TCR is an interesting one! ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:54, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

You're not alone. It will be included in my ST file, so it's not forgotten completely. Thegreatdr (talk) 22:13, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

The TCR is goning to be intresting as in the report NHC submitted to the WMO Hurricanne Comittee they are saying that ERIN is a low over Oklahoma. [5] Jason Rees (talk) 13:26, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Since that is likely just a truncated version of the TCR, we have our answer. By that definition, most systems that quickly spin up via an upper level low nearby (like Allison 2001 and Humberto 2007 in the Gulf of Mexico) don't qualify as tropical cyclones. Thegreatdr (talk) 18:32, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone mind if they visit my My subpage talk about if the Christmas break storm was a subtropical storm? Weatherlover819 (talk) 11:02, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Erin's TCR!

Finally! Juliancolton ^{The storm still blows...} 17:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Is this correct? Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 17:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Oy. What do you all think? I'm not going to touch that, since it was part of my dispute with Chacor 8 months ago. Thegreatdr (talk) 15:50, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

This could be another one of those debates that get way out of proportion. Personally, I think we should just follow the NHC, since they said 35 kt was its peak as a tropical cyclone. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

But if the system over OK was part of Erin, then it should still count as the peak intensity. Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 13:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

No, because it wasn't a tropical cyclone then. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Not officially, no. But it was still a continuation of Erin, and it was the same storm. Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 13:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Please don't make this a bigger deal than it has to be. The NHC has decided it for us. They said the peak winds and lowest pressure occurred while Erin was over the Gulf of Mexico. Regarding the it was still a continuation of Erin, and it was the same storm, we don't use higher winds or lower pressures if a storm is stronger as an extratropical storm. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:39, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

If NHC defined it as an extratropical storm, I'd agree with your argument. But they didn't, did they? Thegreatdr (talk) 16:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't want this to become a big issue. I'd rather just use what the NHC said was the peak intensity, and explain in the lede and storm history that this was an unusual circumstance. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough...it's been nearly 9 months of bickering about this topic. If it's anything like Zeta, it's sure to come up again from another editor sometime in the surprisingly near future. Do we have this procedure for assigning maximum intensity for articles/infoboxes listed on the main project page? If not, we should. Thegreatdr (talk) 21:09, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we do have a set procedure, but unofficially what we've been doing is whatever the NHC listed as max winds, lowest pressure, and dates. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

The peak intensity is when it was strongest as a tropical or subtropical storm. Example: Andrea was at 65kts while extratropical, but its peak intensity was 50kts when became a subtropical storm. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 17:12, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

STD 22 from 05 had similar problems: it was, briefly, a tropical-storm strength system, but it was already extratropical by that time. We used the peak intensity as STD 22 and not as the system it was a part of (along with Tammy, Wilma, and Alpha). Hurricane Angel Saki My own personal NHC 21:21, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Retired Names

Does anyone know know when they will give the new names? --[[User:SapphireTempest|SapphireTempest]] (talk) 20:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I heard by the end of April we will know. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd heard by the end of March, so who the heck knows. -- §HurricaneERICarchive 18:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The Retired names will be decided at the end of april according to the WMOS website however i can not see the NHC telling us untill the beginning of may Jason Rees (talk) 00:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, Katrina was retired on April 6, 2006, according to the article. Any comments on this? I personally think since it's near the middle of spring, the name(s) has(have) to be retired. (IMO)Weatherlover819 (talk) 03:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

It depends when the WMO meeting is. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Finally! I figured out when the names will be retired: April 28. Weatherlover819 (talk) 08:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

After WMO meeting

That day is nearly over and a Google search doesn't reveal what names are retired. Georgia guy (talk) 23:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone over at Storm2k (Derek Ortt) is saying that an AMS conference took place and mentioned that someone during it revealed that Dean was retired. Same person claimed the replacement name is "Dorian", which, on the heels of Typhoon Durian, isn't the best of names. He also said that it was indeed France that requested Dean's end. However, I'll wait for the report (or a news story). Hurricane Angel Saki My own personal NHC 02:35, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Of course, NHC switches the 07 list to the new 13 position...and leaves all the names there. GIVE US SOME NEWS, PLEASE! They couldn't have not retired a SINGLE NAME. Hurricane Angel Saki My own personal NHC 23:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I can't believe (Dean,) Felix and/or Noel wasn't retired! (Of course, the final report would be issued later.)Weatherlover819 (talk) 11:09, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Let's not jump the gun yet. It has been reported that Dean was requested for retirment, and if Dean is not retired, it would be the first time in history that the WMO turned down a request. ANDROS¹³³⁷ 16:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi. What, Felix and Noel weren't retired??? Shouldn't Nicaragua and Haiti request retirement of Felix and Noel? Well, then again Gordon wasn't retired because Haiti didn't request retirement, so we'll have to wait and see. Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 17:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Just to clarify - I think Haiti DID request Gordon, but the WMO refused, blaming the Haitian government's ineptitude for the carnage instead of the storm alone. --Golbez (talk) 19:31, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Please wait for the WMO to come out with the report. We don't know if those names were or were not retired. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes that is wise but just too clairfy FRANCE requested that Felix and Noel were replaced with Fernand or Firmin & Nestor Jason Rees (talk) 11:51, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Conflicting sources? I've heard in some places that the WMO refused the request, but I've also heard that a: Haiti did not request retirement, and b: the WMO has never refused a request. Who is right? What does our article say? Besides, similar disasters jike Jeanne did get retired. Also, Klaus got in, so we'll have to wait and see. Also, why would France request retirement of Felix and Noel if neither of them affected Martinique? When's the official report coming out? Before June, I hope! Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 17:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Because they're France and have to have the final say in everything. Note, a very politcal French company (a supposedly international organization but their name is in French) decides which airplane records are legit or not. WMO is so agonizingly slow. I really hate tight-assed bueraucratic organizations especially those in Europe (such as the United Nations, IAU, whoever runs war crimes trials and the WMO...notice all those are based in Europe). All they are are a bunch of gray-haired suits with fat political agendas and no idea what they're talking about. I'd bet money that most of the people in charge of retiring names don't know the first thing about meteorology. Back in the old days, NHC named, retired and replaced. Back in the old days, astronomers had absolute power over naming their own finds. Nowadays, everything is disgustingly political and mired in bureaucracy and I hate it. Just my bitch session of the week. -- §HurricaneERICarchive 21:12, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me for asking Eric (its offtopic), but mind if I ask that, seeing as you mention how organizations are run, including astronomy, what is your opinion on the demotion of Pluto as a planet, or, in a broader sense, the "definition of a planet" as the IAU gave? Hurricane Angel Saki My own personal NHC 03:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I actually don't have a problem with the new designation of "dwarf planet." What I have a problem with on the astronomical front is the overly bureaucratic process of submitting names for discoveries and having them approved, which apparently takes years and years of careful thinking. I think we should all relax. I find it very hard to believe that storms that caused as much damage as Noel and Felix and Dean won't get retired. Perhaps WMO could concoct another disgusting, Gordon-esque response, but I can't see that happening. I'm more concerned with the WMO replacing them with incredibly stupid names that only four people have been unlucky enough to be tagged with (Dorian is an especially disturbing development). Rina? Nana? Virginie? And my goodness stop with the bubbly names. 2005 was really bad. Cindy, Emily, Katrina, Ophelia, Philippe, Tammy, Wilma. Do any of those names sound threatening to you? No offense to normal people bearing these names, but "Katrina" sounds like someone who puts naked pictures of herself on the internet. "Nana" sounds like someone's grandmother. "Philippe" sounds like he serves fine cuisine. And no names from Shakespeare ("Ophelia") or the Flintstones ("Wilma") please. -- HurricaneERIC - Class of '08: XVII Maius MMVIII 23:18, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Has the official word come out yet? The header says "after WMO meeting" but why are they so slow as to the anouncement? When will we get the info and will it be found on the NHC website? Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 00:55, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Eric, Katrina is a nickname for death in Mexico. I can assure you that the first thing I think when I hear "Katrina" is not a libertine online slut. It's really a case of YMMV. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 02:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

(indent revert) Hey Eric, it could be a million times worse. In the Australian basin (east, I believe), when they themselves booted Katrina from their names list after the 98 cyclone, the replacement name they gave was KITTY ! Seriously, can you imagine a forecaster/newsman/anyone saying, with a straight face, "Category 5 Hurricane Kitty is moving towards Mexico"? However, I do myself have nitpicks with some of our names for this year (I've never heard the name "Paloma" in my life, "Rene" is androgynous for a name, and don't even get me STARTED on "Teddy", why couldn't they just say "Ted"?) Hurricane Angel Saki My own personal NHC 02:34, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Again, Paloma is a Spanish name, and not that uncommon either. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 02:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of Kitty, here's a thought. If the Atlantic basin continued to use the 10-year lists of all female names, given that 1985's Kate and 1995's Karen were not retired, Katrina would've been named Kitty! Kitty was on the list in 1975, and if we kept the list in the 10-year rotation, it would've been on the list in 1985, 1995, and ultimately 2005. Thank goodness for the name changes in 1979. PenguinCDF (talk) 03:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the reason we aren't hearing much is because none of the storms really impacted the US, hence the NWS and media aren't picking it up like with 2005? CrazyC83 (talk) 13:03, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Paloma means dove.[6] I could just imagine one of saying that "Paloma has killed X people; that's very un-dove-like!" (not that I want that to happen. Let's hope it doesn't.) Also, if this means anything, the NHC has updated its storm name page.[7] Dean, Felix, Humberto et. al are under the 2013 column. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 17:26, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Tito, you pick a bunch of random people off the streets, even Mexican streets, and I guarantee you there will be very few who associate the name "Katrina" with "death." Those who do do so because of the rather famous hurricane bearing that name. Angel, the worst Atlantic storm name in history was before the modern lists came about in 1979: Fifi. That it killed 8,000 people to become the third deadliest Atlantic storm in modern times is a case of cruel irony. The pre-2000 West Pacific had the worst all-time worldwide. Flo and Elsie are just a few of the ones that make me cringe. Several Cat 5s were named Elsie. -- HurricaneERIC - Class of '08: XVII Maius MMVIII 18:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Considering that I lived in Mexico for most of my life, I think I can say with very high certainty that there is more than one dimension perceived in the name Katrina than just the hurricane, considering that I've heard jokes comparing the hurricane to the famous death caricature I linked above. Again, whether the names are ugly or note is just a personal preference. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 00:42, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Possible Retirement Date: May 9?

Just looked at the list of meetings on the WMO website, and they have one listed as the WMO/ESCAP Panel on Tropical Cyclones, from May 6 to 9. Perhaps this will be the meeting where they decide on retirees and replacements? _{|C A I N E R|}^|ninety-one| 21:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Someone e-mailed them and said that Dorian, Fernand and Nestor are replacement names, we just need to wait for a press release. CrazyC83 (talk) 13:13, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, in the List of tropical cyclone names, it says Dorian, Fernand, and Nestor on the 2013 list. Weatherlover819 (talk) 06:52, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Which I reverted until we get a press release. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

He's right, of course. We need a reference. Thegreatdr (talk) 14:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Just for reference that meeting that Cainer is on about is the Panel for the NIO which is headed up by RSMC New Delhi Jason Rees (talk) 23:39, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh well, May 9 passed and still no information on retired names. It could be the latest time the WMO has ever officially retired names! Weatherlover819 (talk) 09:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

The Retired Names Are Dean, Felix, and Noel

They have been retired and replaced with Dorian, Fernand, and Nestor. http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2008/20080513_stormnames.html Tfelts 21:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Should we...

Archive this, because Archive 3 has less writing than this one. You can archive anything BUT the storm chart. Weatherlover819 (talk) 23:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

We might as well wait for the retirement names, since we'll be talking about that, and that would be the last we will be talking en masse about last year. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:40, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Since the NHC has changed its name page but has Dean, Felix, etc in the 2013 list (just as I said above) this almost begs the conclusion that no names were retired, an unusual move given the season. If that's true we'd might as well archive. But if retired names are going to be announced, they'd better be announced soon. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 00:51, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

As stated earlier, please wait for the WMO report. Let's not jump the gun yet. ANDROS¹³³⁷ 15:09, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

And also, I'm leery of using NHC for name updates. Look at their lists:

• Ioke is still present on the list, as is Paka and all replaced names.
• All the retired named from 2000 onward are still on the Typhoons List...even Kodo and Hanuman, two of the first retired names as are legit retirees like Vamei and Chata'an.
• Lixion Avila, one of NHCs meteorologists, mentioned Dean was retired at an AMS conference, and as long as that stands, either the NHC list is wrong, or Avila is wrong, and since most people at the conference mentioned the Dean quote, I can say that the former seems most likely.

In short, there enough evidence to call suspicious to NHC's list updates. I agree with waiting for the WMO report. Hurricane Angel Saki My own personal NHC 05:21, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Is it all right now to archive this talk page? Weatherlover819 (talk) 23:03, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I would say so. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 23:03, 13 May 2008 (UTC)