Talk:Albanian nobility

Removal of Byzantine, Latin or Slavic titles

There is a source which explains that Albanian nobility used Byzantine, Latin or Slavic titles.

• The title of Dhimitër Progoni was Archon.
• Progon of Kruja also had title of archon.
• Teodor II Muzaka had title of despot.
• Gjin Bua Shpata also had title of despot.
• Jakub Bua Shpata also had title of despot.
• Maurice Spata also had title of despot.
• Gjon Zenebishi was Sebastocrator
• Andrea Gropa had title of župan and gospodar....

@ZjarriRrethues: Please don't remove Byzantine, Latin or Slavic titles used by Albanian nobility like you did with this diff.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 20:06, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

If you have to include titles then only include the most common ones.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 08:26, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Aristocracies in Albania

• The Albanian nobility often owed their allegiance to various states like Serbian Empire, Lordship of Zeta, Serbian Despotate, Republic of Venice, Ottoman Empire or Kingdom of Naples so they were also considered as part of the aristocracy of those states.

@ZjarriRrethues: Will you please be so kind to explain why did you remove above mentioned sentence from the article?

I think it is very important to explain to the readers that albanian nobility was often part of aristocracy of the states which in fact controlled the region of Albania. I.e. some members of Muzaka family were Byzantine aristocracy (Gjon I Muzaka) while some other were nobility of House of Anjou (Andrea II Muzaka). Many members of Dukagjini family, Humoj family were Venetian nobility. etc.... Or Köprülü family "an Ottoman noble family" which originated from Albania. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:17, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

You and Zoupan removed sourced content i.e content tags. Btw Albanian nobility was a nobility is a tautology and since you've added families like the Koprulu/Bua/Shpata that didn't rule areas that were part of the modern Albania (the Koprulu estates weren't even in Europe) it makes no sense to label the Albanian nobility as the ruling class of Albania.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 17:11, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

1. Let me remind you that I asked you a question. When you ignore or refuse to answer good faith questions from other editors that can be seen as Wikipedia:Tendentious editing. I explained my position. Please don't refuse to discuss your edits and answer my question.
2. You accused me for removing the sourced content. Will you please present a diff which I proves removed sourced content?
3. Please stop tagbombing this article. Not only that you tagbombed the article but you also failed to follow the requested procedures for adding NPOV, disputed and COI tags to the article. Althogh I could follow the wikipedia procedures and remove tags you added I will not do that. Will you please be so kind to follow the requested procedures for adding the tags you added? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:07, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

You had no source about any of them. In fact the only content that was part of the source was removed by Zoupan, who reverted back your OR list.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 21:21, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Question 1: You had no source about any of them. I think that is not a valid reason for deletion of the statements which are patently obvious and generally accepted:

• Wikipedia:Verifiability: It is only necessary to provide inline citations for quotations and for any information that has been challenged or that is likely to be challenged.
• Many editors misunderstand the citation policy, seeing it as a tool to enforce, reinforce, or cast doubt upon a particular point of view in a content dispute, rather than as a means to verify Wikipedia's information. This can lead to several mild forms of disruptive editing which are better avoided.

If you have any specific reason to challenge the content of the sentences you removed please present it. Otherwise don't delete statements which are patently obvious and generally accepted (like you did with this diff) under excuse they are not sourced.

Question 2: Thank you for your reply to question number 2 and admitting that your accusation that I removed the sourced content was unjustified. Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence are considered as form of personal attack. Repeated or egregious personal attacks may lead to blocks.

Question 3: Please don't ignore this very important question. Do you intend to follow wikipedia procedures for adding NPOV, disputed and COI tags to the article?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 10:25, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

(unindent)When someone removes your edits as OR it means that they are challenged i.e find sources or don't add them back. Since you insist on adding them you have a week to source every entry and after that I'll remove all the unsourced ones.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 22:44, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

OK. I will do it within one week, although I believe that edits you challenged (removed) are patently obvious and generally accepted.

Do you intend to follow wikipedia procedures for adding NPOV, disputed and COI tags to the article? This is the third time I ask you this question (diff for the first time and diff for the second time). --Antidiskriminator (talk) 12:37, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

@ZjarriRrethues:

1. I added 26 references within the deadline you gave me. If you think there are assertions which should be additionally cited, please don't delete it, just put cn tags and I will add citations.
2. Please be so kind not to ignore my question anymore (I am asking you for the fourth time): Do you intend to follow wikipedia procedures for adding NPOV, disputed and COI tags to the article? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:59, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

No answer. Data has been tripled, removing tags.--Zoupan 00:52, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Lead

I've made some edits to simplify and summarize as much as possible the lead section.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 07:55, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Language

The article says 'The official language of correspondence in the Medieval principalities in Albania controlled by local nobility were Greek, Latin or Slavic.' What about Albanian language? As this is Albanian nobility, surely they spoke Albanian? Dirifer (talk) 15:13, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

albanian nobility means nobile families from the region of albania. from the shkumbin river they were mostly slavic or vlach families. kastrioti for example were mixed mijak (macedonian) and albanian. from the devol region pretty much the same. than tosks, which were using greek language. than ghegs which were using vulgar latin or veneto language (which eventually became the official language in whole albania).89.205.59.148 (talk) 19:09, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

These nobles were indeed ethnic Albanians, however since Albania was often under foreign rule, these nobles had to use the language of the country they were part of, Albanian was both a spoken and a written language at least since the 13th century, as attested by the fact clergymen and visitors have talked about it. ALBA-CENTAURI (talk) 09:28, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Maps

• Etait Albanais de Skanderbeg.--Zoupan 01:18, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

I saw this map a couple of years ago when somebody brought it to Skanderbeg talkpage. I am afraid it is incorrect. I.e, Elbassan was built after Sfetigrad fell to the Ottomans. It is useless for this article anyway. If somebody could draw gif animated map of Albania in middle ages with clearly presented explanation to what states it belonged it would be much better. I am afraid it is too difficult task for now. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 08:25, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

I was thinking more like a map of all the Albanian noble families during the Skenderbeg period; using the style of the above map (family names at their respective areas).--Zoupan 21:48, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Missing a section for the Kingdom of Albania (medieval)

Should we add this part? It is missing and It is for sure integral part of the medieval history that Albanian nobility held privileges. Apart from that, It is the official creation of the medieval Kingdom of Albania by Charles of Anjou. Othon I (talk) 14:27, 26 August 2023 (UTC)