Talk:Anti-Islam

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Islam

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved —Darkwind (talk) 04:58, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-Islamism → Anti-Islam – To reflect the scope of this page. Islamism and Islam are not the same thing. --Relisted Cúchullain ^t/c 19:06, 12 December 2012 (UTC)Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:24, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Another possible title is Anti-Islamic.
Comment. Not sure about this. Technically, I suppose "the state of being against Islamism" should be called "anti-Islamismism", but that's... silly? 213.246.91.158 (talk) 21:51, 24 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Why would that be silly. It's calling Criticism of Islam, Persecution of Muslims, or Islamophobia "Anti-Islamism" that's silly. Anti-communism is not a disambiguation page that lists Russophobia. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 14:06, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, Emette's point is convincing. --87.78.54.250 (talk) 07:52, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Opposition to Islam is not fundamentally Islamophobic. --BDD (talk) 18:43, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, the opposite is the case: Anti-Islam is far more Islamophobic than Anti-Islamism, in that opposition to Islamism is rooted in the extremism of the other side and thus plausible if not justified. Blanket opposition to Islam by contrast is pure Islamophobia. --87.79.43.184 (talk) 19:27, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I partially agree. If Alan is anti-Islam and Bob is anti-Islamism, I'd agree that Alan is more likely to be Islamophobic. But Alan could be anti-Islam without being Islamophobic, such as if he were atheist or otherwise against religion. Or perhaps he objects to the treatment of women in Islam without demonstrating "prejudice against, or hatred or irrational fear of, Muslims." --BDD (talk) 19:32, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Administrator's comment: This is a disambiguation page, and Anti-Islam already redirects to Islamophobia. In deciding to make the move, we need specific discussion of whether Anti-Islam should be a dab page, or continue to redirect (meaning this dab page would go to Anti-Islam (disambiguation). We also need discussion as to whether "Anti-Islam" or "Anti-Islamism" is what readers are really going for.--Cúchullain ^t/c 19:06, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This should remain a disambiguation page, but under the proposed title. If nothing else, "Anti-Islam" is a more concise title, and also more encompassing. A person who is anti-Islam will also be anti-Islamism, but the reverse isn't necessarily true. --BDD (talk) 19:24, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I must disagree with this remaining a disambig page at all. It is WP:DABCONCEPT, a collection of related terms capable of being discussed in a brief article that addresses all of them. The terms are not ambiguous to one another, in the sense that Mercury (planet) is ambiguous to Mercury (automobile), or Battery (electricity) is ambiguous to Battery (crime). bd2412 T 16:14, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Islamism vs. Islam

I notice some disagreement among editors as to whether "criticism of Islamism" should be distinguished from anti-Islam by disambiguation (in which case it should be on the list of cases for disambiguation) or a clarification of a confusion (by informing the reader in a preface that "criticism of Islamism" is something else because Islamism is not Islam.)

I raise the need for this discussion in view of recent history. When Islamism in any of it meanings was a minority view within Islam and sometimes seen as non-mainstream if not heretical, Islamism was generally seen as a special fringe movement within Islam that was not part and parcel of Islam proper. It was found in distant locations (Taliban Afghanistan) or outlawed revivalist movements (Muslim Brotherhood). However, with popular democratic elections bringing self-described Islamist regimes to Islam's central and leading nations (Egypt and Turkey within Sunni Islam and Iran within the Shia sphere) the distinction within current discourse has become blurred.

Muslims and non-Muslims, talking about Islam, are often actually talking about Islamism. In light of this ambiguity in the readers mind, we should offer Criticism of Islamism as a type of anti-Islam. This is especially true for Islamists who see Islamism simply as Islam. I suggest we reopen this discussion. Jason from nyc (talk) 11:27, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed linking change

I propose modifying links on articles from terms along the lines of "anti-Islam" from Islamophobia to this disambig instead. 64.134.166.138 (talk) 19:18, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism of Islam

This dab page covers both "Anti-Islam" and "Anti-Muslim", @Seraphim System:, why shouldn't Criticism of Islam be linked here? It's been in the page with no issues since the dab page was created in 2011. Iffy★Chat -- 11:01, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We have to decide if the DAB page should cover both Anti-Islam and Anti-Muslim. I'm very sorry it has been in the page with no issues because I think it is a big issue to present legitimate criticism of a religion as a prejudice against a group of people, which is what is meant by the term "Anti-Muslim".Seraphim System ^(talk) 11:04, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If the page were to be split, which terms would you place in which dab page? Iffy★Chat -- 11:11, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One article doesn't need its own dab page, it can be handled by a hat note, as we've done it on other articles. I don't think we can label Criticsm of Islam "Anti-Islam" either. People can be critical of their own religion without being anti and our "Criticism" articles include these types of discussions.Seraphim System ^(talk) 11:39, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]