Talk:Architecture of Denmark/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Binksternet (talk) 19:20, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   • According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks)#Trademarks that begin with a lowercase letter, the architectural firms with lower case trademarks such as schmidt hammer lassen should begin with a capital. I don't know whether it is best to use "Schmidt hammer lassen" or "Schmidt Hammer Lassen", but both of those appear within the article. Please select one of the two choices and be consistent.

• Done.

1. • About this link, Kølstup Vicarage, is Kølstup spelled correctly? Also, the guide at WP:EL says Wikipedia articles may include links to web pages outside Wikipedia, but they should not normally be used in the body of an article. I don't have a gigantic problem with this harmless link, but is there another solution?

• Done.

1. • Ordinals such as "17^th-century houses" and "the middle of the 16^th century" do not need superscripting. Check Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Typography.

• Have removed all the superscripts. (Have been going round in circles on this for some time!)

1. • Per WP:DASH, please use the en dash for all date ranges: 2005–06 instead of 2005-06. (Exception: image file names.)

• Tried to do this but it caused enormous problems. Have solved the problem by using "to" instead of a hyphen.
  • I didn't much like the look of (1806 to 1815) so I put in my own advice and used the en dash in each case. – Binksternet

1. • Per WP:DASH, you should select between these two choices for sentence interruptions: spaced en dash or unspaced em dash. There are spaced hyphens used incorrectly for this purpose, and there are two spaced em dashes coded in HTML, this way —. A Wikipedia article should not have spaced em dashes, or hyphens used as dashes. However, leave all hyphens alone in URLs and image file names.

• Did not really find anything relevant here.
  • I jumped in and implemented my suggestion. – Binksternet

1. • Titles such as "THE GOLDEN LION – VENICE" should be put in lower case with leading capitals: "The Golden Lion – Venice".

• Done.

1. • I'm American. In English English, is south-eastern the correct spelling? It doesn't need the hyphen, I think.

• In British English it certainly needs a hyphen. Just like south-east.
  • Okay! Thanks. – Binksternet

1. • I bet you didn't intend to suggest patricide here: "Jensen-Klint's death by his son Kaare Klint..."

• Done.

1. • "Another of Jacobsen's masterpieces, together with Erik Møller, was the Aarhus City Hall..." Was Erik Møller one of Jacobsen's masterpieces?

• Done

1. • This sentence would probably be better if the two examples are swapped, the short one first: "Good examples are Jørn Utzon's own family house (1951-1953) on the outskirts of Hellebæk near Helsingør where good use is made of reasonably cheap materials for post-war housing[52] and the Kingo Houses (1956-1958)."

• Tidied up while keeping the chronological sequence.

1. • Jacobsen is linked in Functionalism and then again in Modernism, a short distance later. I think the Modernism link should be taken out.

• Done.

1. • In this sentence, "Recent years have also seen the emergence of several new practices operating both in Denmark and internationally", the word practices refers to what? Architectural firms? Architectural methods? Clarify.

• There's been lots of discussion of "practices" from your side of the pond. In Europe, it is the usual term used for an architectural firm. But I changed this instance as you suggest.

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   • The link to www.denmark.dk is dead. Please replace.

• It's actually an excellent reference but you are quite right. It has been on and off over the past four months. I've changed it.

1. • Please place a reference after this sentence, otherwise it appears to be original research: "It seems to have been related to earlier German buildings, though there are also traces of Anglo-Norman and Lombard influences."

• Done.

1. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

2. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

3. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

4. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   • The image File:Grande Arche de La Défense et fontaine.jpg is not free and must have a Non-free image rationale. Also, its file size is far too large for a fair use photo. I recommend you shrink it and upload a new, smaller version.

• Found a new image.

1. • Some of the images have wikilinks to a page about the building shown, and some do not. Please add wikilinks to all buildings in images, where building articles exist. Starting with St Bendt's Church, Ringsted and St. Peter's Church, Næstved... Also, add wikilinks for every architect named in image text.

• Wikilinks added to images where possible.

1. • Explain to me the thinking behind the hard coding of image sizes. How do you know what people have as their screen resolutions? Did you consider using the |thumb|upright=x| parameter from Wikipedia:Extended image syntax? Just curious. See how it might look at User:Binksternet/Denmarkitecture, where I changed 150px to upright=.85, 200px to upright=1.15, 300px to upright=1.7, and 350px to upright=2. My resolution is 1024x768 and it looks fine. If it looks crazy on your screen, tell me the resolution and your default thumbnail size.

• Have had enormous and very time-consuming with the number, positioning, and sizing of the images in this article. See also separate comments below. I really do not want to start on another wild-goose chase.

1. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comprehensive article, well written. The list of issues that need to be addressed is within reason—I think it is very close to GA. I will watch for article improvements and stay in touch. Binksternet (talk) 05:34, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

• Passing comment - I have user prefs set at 300px, so anything using the upright method looks awful to me, including User:Binksternet/Denmarkitecture - it has something I've never seen before, two pictures actually overlapping - I didn't know you could do that. Really these uplift parameters should not be allowed, & I think it is beginning to sink in. I think if you look at the policy pages you will see that uplifts over ?1.5 are now discouraged - on the image tutorial perhaps. They cause more problems than they solve. Remember there is a change to the default thumbnail pending, from 180-220, which will make x2 uplifts into 440px images for all default users. Johnbod (talk) 05:48, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

• Thank you, Binksternet, for spending so much time and effort on this and for all your very useful and constructive comments. I will certainly be able to follow up on nearly all of them. There are just two issues I think I ought to comment on at this stage as they have both cost me a lot of time and effort in previous revisions to the article. The first is the superscripting of ordinals for centuries. In the earlier versions of the article, there was no superscripting but one very experienced editor insisted that it was absolutely necessary to use superscripting and starting changning lots of them himself. I then simply tidied up by going for consistency. The other problem is the size, number and positioning of images. Here again, experienced editors have come up with various "rules" about how to use images in Wikipedia articles, sometimes leading to conflicts between each other. I thought I had finally found a solution that would be acceptable to all but once again I see that you have objections yourself. Would you be happy if the pixel size was simply removed from all of them so that they fall into the default size? I fear that any other change might cause more problems than solutions. Ipigott (talk) 10:05, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

• Have had serious problems with the "en dash" which I have never used before. I tried to follow your suggestions and studiously added the template from the example page. I then found the following appearing in the text of the article: His Bagsværd Church (1968Template:xt is only for examples of style and formatting. Do not use it in actual articles. 1976) in Copenhagen has been considered an outstanding example of critical regionalism, for the synthesis created between universal civilisation and regional culture. I obviously need a training course here although I must say that in British English a hyphen separated by spaces is perfectly acceptable. If Wikipedia insists on the en dash, perhaps you could give me the code for using it or tell me where to find it in the editing prompts. Ipigott (talk) 11:21, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

• Have now completed work in line with nearly all the suggestions made. See my comments inserted into the recommendations. Please let me know if more needs to be done. Thanks for everything. Ipigott (talk) 13:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations on making a fine article! Thank you for helping me understand British spellings such as south-east and thank you for discussing the problems with the upright image parameter and the forthcoming upgrade to image thumbnail default size. I accept your hard coded images because as yet there is not a good thumbnail solution for images that are tall versus ones that are wide. Regarding dashes, when I edit Wikipedia, I see a row of clickable symbols down below "Save page" where the en dash and em dash are the first two available. Other handy selections down there are the degree sign, the plus-or-minus sign and so on. That makes it fairly easy. Binksternet (talk) 16:00, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks very much for carrying out the dirty work on the hyphens/dashes. You must have an eagle eye to be able to distinguish between 2005-2007 and 2005–2007. Even an example — or whatever you might call it — such as this does not obviously have long dashes. How can you see them while editing? Anyway, I've now had my training course and will try to apply the rules more systematically in the future. Ipigott (talk) 16:35, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

When I decide to correct an article's hyphens and dashes, I don't use my eye, I use the browser's search function. I get it into edit mode and search for any instance of the terms "mdash" and "ndash", parts of the HTML code for those symbols, and I make them into the symbols rather than the code. Then I use my mouse to highlight one or the other of the en dash or em dash at the bottom of the edit page below "Save page" and I use that term to search throughout the article for its brothers, changing any that are not used correctly. I then decide whether the article has a preponderance of spaced or unspaced dashes used for sentence interruption, and change the minority to match the majority. I search for hyphens used as dashes, and change any that are not image file names or URLs. It takes a little while, but is not impossible. :-/

If you have any articles that need the treatment, give me a shout. And congratulations on your epic article about a very large subject! Binksternet (talk) 17:05, 15 January 2010 (UTC)