Talk:Aryan religion

adding links and simultaneously {{fact}} tagging them

Please don't add religions to this list that one is oneself not sure whether they are "Aryan religions" or not. Adding for the sake of "completeness" and then {{fact}} tagging is counter-productive. -- Fullstop 06:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Neologism & {{prod}}

I have nominated this article for deletion because

a) the word 'Aryan' in English does not have the same meaning as it does in Indian languages, which is the context of the article.

b) while the Indian word 'Arya Dharma' denotes the Dharmic religions, the loan translation into English is {{OR}}. There is no such term as 'Aryan religions' in English, nor is it legitimate for WP to define it.

-- Fullstop 06:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ps: A key term such as 'Arya Dharma' warrants its own article (even if its just a redirect to Dharmic religions)

deleting this would probably be best, but it then should be protected against recreation. The disambiguation page as it is serves the function to prevent creation of this article with confused or sectarian content. If we just delete it, we can be sure to find it recreated with confused ramblings within a few months. I agree the term is problematic, but that's why we've made it a dab page, not an article. dab (𒁳) 07:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

yes, protect after delete is probably a good idea. -- Fullstop 07:37, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ps: as the edits of Maleabroad showed, the dab was not much of a safeguard against confused ramblings. ;)

I am not sure what to do with "arya dharma". I suppose it's compositional, arya + dharma. After giving this some thought, I believe that it is best to keep this as a disambiguation page, making clear that the term is fuzzy and/or obsolete. arya dharma could redirect either here, or to dharmic religions, or to arya or to dharma, I don't care. dab (𒁳) 07:40, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the question is... is there such a thing as "Aryan religion", or is that a wikipedia-specific calque? If anything at all, "Aryan religion" => "reconstructed Proto-Indo-Iranian religion" (as you had already added).

-- Fullstop 09:26, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ps: "Arya Dharma" has nothing whatsoever to do with "Aryan religion." Although its clear how someone somewhere came up with "Dharma equals religion, thus Arya Dharma must means Aryan religion," its pure OR, and a horrific trivialization to boot. Arya Dharma denotes a specific doctrine, but that subject is not relevant to the discussion of {{prod}}, so I won't discuss it (here) further.

This is not an article, but a disambiguation page. It could have been made a redirect instead, but it quickly gets confusing where this redirect should go. Academic sources using this term (e.g., an old dictionary definition, [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], and so on) use/have used it in various ways. One thing we can be pretty sure about is that the term is obviously not neologism. It's more probably the opposite -- a term in frequent use upto the first half of the 20th century, but no longer in academic use because of the confusion it created. Such terms are notable, and a disambiguation page is most appropriate for this situation. What all goes on the disambiguation page can of course be discussed. deeptrivia (talk) 15:13, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to agree here. A disambiguation page clearly stating that the term is obsolete seems to be the best solution. dab (𒁳) 16:07, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand it, the term Aryan has had a significant currency in the past, although it has become dated and extremely loaded since WW2 for obvious reasons. However, it is certainly not a neologism, this is just about a legitimate article although not particuarly well written. PatGallacher 23:06, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

d'accord for 'keep', following deeptrivia's and Pat's reasoning. -- Fullstop 07:02, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a neologism in the sense that the term has been in use in various meanings for more than 100 years. The point is that these meanings are varied, so that it is absolutely necessary that this remain a disambiguation page. In recent usage , I find "Proto-Aryan religion" in the unambiguous sense of "Proto-Indo-Iranian religion" (Parpola). "Aryan religion" is a term used in the context of propaganda and ideology, e.g. in Aryan Mythology As Science and Ideology, by Stefan Arvidsson, Journal of the American Academy of Religion (1999). Wikipedia is still lacking a decent discussion of such recent extremist ideologies surrounding "Aryan". My perhaps unhappily titled Hindutva propaganda was deleted (instead of merged/re-titled) in obvious bad faith, but the referenced material would bear inclusion in an existing article, or in a new article on such "Neo-Aryan" extremism. dab (𒁳) 07:35, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources for the term dharmic religions?

Where are the reliable sources that use the term dharmic religions in the context of this article? "Dharmic religions" is a now deleted obscure neologism and should generally not be used throughout Wikipedia. A good alternative is Indian religions. I propose leaving dharmic religions in brackets, like "Indian religions (sometimes called dharmic religions)" The number of google scholar results for "Indian religions"+"Indian religion" is (45.600 + 84.200) while it is only (492+475) for "dharmic religions" +"dharmic religion". See Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_September_8. Andries 19:21, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

link removed, was superfluous anyway. -- Fullstop 21:56, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]