Talk:Bistro Agnes

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bistro Agnes article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

Bistro Agnes has been listed as one of the Agriculture, food and drink good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 3, 2024. (Reviewed version).

This article was nominated for deletion on 17 December 2022. The result of the discussion was Procedural close.

Food and drink: Foodservice Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Related taskforces:
/
	This article is supported by the Foodservice task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Food and Drink task list:

To edit this page, select here

Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink:

Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt
Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar
Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish
Participate in project-related deletion discussions.
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here.
Provide photographs and images for Category:Wikipedia requested images of food
Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section

Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

Guild of Copy Editors

This article was copy edited by Baffle gab1978, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on May 30, 2023.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles

Oregon Low‑importance

	Oregon portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Oregon, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Oregon on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OregonWikipedia:WikiProject OregonTemplate:WikiProject OregonOregon articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
The current collaborations of the month are Women's History Month: Create or improve articles for women listed at Oregon Women of Achievement (modern) or Women of the West, Oregon chapter (historical).

United States: 50,000 Challenge Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article was created or improved during this WikiProject's 50,000 Challenge, which started on November 1, 2016, and is ongoing. You can help!

There is a request, submitted by --Another Believer _(Talk), for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia.

The rationale behind the request is: "Good article on English Wikipedia".

Notability

What makes this restaurant notable? A handful of local-interest articles do not establish notability; Wikipedia is not a travel guide, and most of the article seems to be dedicated to the fact that it closed (not unusual, sadly) . Mockingbus (talk) 11:58, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mockingbus How about a review by The New York Times? Any chance you're willing to remove the banner? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Another Believer – Not… really? It well-verified (you do an excellent job of that; I have to take my hat off on this matter) but Allchin is a PNW writer (a Portland native as called out in the article, so likely not making a special excursion for the review) and despite the NYTimes publication I don't really see the notable, the non-routine coverage – the "so what?. From the sources it feels like the restaurant got some routine (if, in one case, well-placed) coverage in its opening year and then nothing at all until its extended demise.

Again, it feels like the most significant thing about it is that it closed, and that was sadly not unusual at all in the circumstances.

I'm not prepared to bicker too much about the matter, though (there are better things to bicker about), and I freely admit I might be taking an overly-stiff view on 'notability'; I'm happy to defer to a neutral WP:3O if you are. (Sorry for the delayed response, by the way; it's that time of year. Happy holidays!) –Mockingbus (talk) 04:52, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mockingbus I've added this source, this source, and quite a few others. Open to getting more editor feedback however you think is best, if you feel that's still necessary. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 02:03, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't think that helps; in fact I think it might make the case worse. There's so much noise and fluff involved that I feel like much of it borders on spam. I don't have the time to do a point-by-point review, but let's pull these and some of the 'quite a few others' and take a quick closer look.

FSR Magazine makes a brief mention of the fact that the Dentons remodeled the space while converting it from Ox. It's the least-covered restaurant in the article, which is not about restaurants as such, but about remodeling and re-conceptualizing them.
"Portrait Magazine" is properly Portrait of Portland, which is fine, but taking a look at the overall magazine suggests that it's mostly a designer-furnishings-and-remodeling catalog with some local fluff coverage. Advertisements for architects, contractors, and real estate agents appear to make up most of the page count, and most of the rest is product listings.
Unique Eats and Eateries of Portland, Oregon is a side-mention in coverage of Ox. This might be good for establishing notability of Ox (I can't say; Google Books won't let me read very much of the book and I'm not inclined to buy it), but notability is not inherited.
"The interior featured blue walls, brass railings, mirrors, and vintage French posters." - This is a scene-setting detail in a pre-opening announcement.
"Alyssa Schwartz said "Bistro Agnes is so classically Parisian it almost comes full circle back to edgy." - This is a one-paragraph, opening-year mention in a travel-capsule type article. A bit like the New York Times coverage (but even more so), it seems like an awfully thin hook to hang an article on. That might be "a me thing".
"Hannah Wallace included Bistro Agnes in Condé Nast Traveler's 2018 list of the 21 best restaurants in Portland." - I'll admit this is a relatively significant listicle, but it's still a one-shot listicle in the restaurant's first year. If the restaurant were a perennial entry on Traveler's lists I'd be more inclined to concede the point.
'She said the restaurant had "classic French comfort food executed with precision" and a "friendly, stylish French bistro" vibe. Wallace said Bistro Agnes offered "Parisian sophistication in PDX" with "affable and attentive" service and "awesome" wines. - That's very nearly the whole "review". Besides skirting up on copyright concerns, this is nearly as superficial and incidental as coverage gets.
"Described as a "classic Paris bistro"" - Nearly half of this "coverage" is made of the restaurant's address, website, opening hours, and price range. Superficial travel guide coverage, again.

My concern has never been the number of sources you can pile onto this article; it's their quality and an overall sense of significance that I feel is lacking. I think I'm not the only one; I see Scope_creep filed a (procedurally closed) motion to delete this article over the holidays. Maybe they'd like to comment (I hope in a friendly, civil way? You seem to have a contentious history with each other?)? I do think this needs a more thorough review by more editors, but I'm not sure where that's supposed to be. –Mockingbus (talk) 04:50, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh, I see the tag is back even though User:HelpingWorld had removed. I agree with tag removal. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The editor who added the tag said they are "happy to defer to a neutral WP:3O". Since another editor also thinks the tag is unnecessary, I will remove soon unless anyone objects. Thanks! --Another Believer _(Talk) 17:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source

https://www.wweek.com/restaurants/2018/04/24/the-chefs-behind-ox-recover-from-disappointment-with-bistro-agnes/

---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:16, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]