Talk:Boeing 737 Next Generation/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Main pic

The current SAS main pic is a little busy with the airport background, and it points to the right. It replaced a left pointing one with a Ryanair with a less busy green hills background (but a bit too much from the side), itself replacing a lower resolution, clear sky background pic with an interesting air berlin/dreamliner livery. The previously proposed Southwest was nominated as a featured picture candidate with a clear background, 3/4 view presenting well its config, but was a -700, less widespread than the -800

• 
  current
• 
  previous
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  previous -700
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  Southwest -700

I think a -800 is more representative as it is the most widespread variant. A 3/4 view with a clean background would facilitate concentrating on the aircraft configuration. I would be afraid a small operator or special livery would be distracting too.

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  KLM, a bit too much from the side?
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  Transavia, nice 3/4
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  Egyptair, closer but wing cropped
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  similar KLM retro
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  sunwing, interesting level pic
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  Alaska, bit below but nicely shows features (higher AR wing, wheel well)
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  XL from below, gear retracting
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  American, clean config
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  Delta, clean config
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  continental, clean config
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  Alaska, clean config

Marc Lacoste (talk) 12:58, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

• I would agree a less cluttered image would be better but I dont have a strong view on what should replace it, perhaps the Delta. MilborneOne (talk) 19:05, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I like the clean config too, and the delta has a nice angle.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 23:07, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I think the main picture should be changed to this picture below. A good picture of a -700 in the new Southwest Livery. I think it would be good if the main picture was that of the largest / launch customer. ElshadK (talk) 15:15, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

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  proposed -700, new SW livery
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  previous -700, old SW livery

• Although it would be perhaps better if it was an -800 I think the new Southwest picture above is still very suitable ClippednPinned (talk) 15:26, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Disagree on change - nothing wrong with the current Delta image. MilborneOne (talk) 16:46, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

The more widespread -800 is more representative, and maybe the old SW livery is more appropriate for the NG, and the new livery for the MAX, to date the era.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 05:12, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

When will the plane end production

A useful piece of information might be when the last one will be built. Looks to me like production might wind down by early 2019 but still some produced after that. Vanguard10 (talk) 22:32, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

It might be useful but as far as I know Boeing have not mentioned an end to production of the NG. Demand for the P-3 will probably continue for a while, certainly well after 2019. I believe being built on the same production line as the MAX the NGs can be just slipped into one of the three production lines between the MAXs. MilborneOne (talk) 17:09, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Production of the commercial and buisness variants will be concluding in 2019. For the -900 delta will be taking 7 more and Alaska will be taking 1 more. For the -800 KLM will take 2 Pobeda 3 China Eastern 4 China United 5 and the rest I’m not sure of. The two -700C will go to the US Navy and the 2 -800 bbjs are for the polish government. NJFFJN (talk) 09:20, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Self censorship?

Quite shocked to see a Wikipedia page that has been created in May 2008, does not have a single word related to the controversy related to AHF Ducommun. This potential disaster in the making of allegedly Boeing controlling the FAA, seems to repeat itself now with the Boeing 737 MAX groundings as well. Why is this issue not even mentioned at all? --Bohbye (talk) 06:50, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Probably because nobody knew about it and being an issue from ten years ago with almost zero comment in the media is probably not significant. MilborneOne (talk) 14:13, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Anticipated production end and fact checking

On June 29, some IP claimed the end of production. Regular users reverted the claim, as the Boeing O&D still shows a backlog. Others users, anonymous or new ones, regularly claimed the same during the summer. The ref given at first was simpleflying but no other serious publication claimed the same, and Boeing itself did not. I think I found the origin of the fake news: on June 29, BOC Aviation announced it had delivered the final Boeing 737-800NG. But it was the last NG from BOC, not the last 737NG produced, and poor understanding and poor fact-checking led to a fake story. I avoided simpleflying as a ref until now, as better sources can be found most of the time, but from now I will also discourage its usage by others.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 10:05, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

And again! It looks like some people really want to see the end of the NG production! :) But the source only claims "the last NG to KLM", not the last NG! I agree it's phrased ambiguously. I'll start to put the ifn.news along simpleflying as a poorly edited outlet. Please wait for reliable sources like Flight or Av Week.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 17:27, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

I think what is ment that it is the last passenger version that has been built, but a logical thought easily shows that NG production hasn't been ended yet; the Boeing 737 AEW&C and Boeing P-8 Poseidon have orders to be completed. Redalert2fan (talk) 17:41, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Noted. Added "passenger version". Hope it clarifies.--Now wiki (talk) 21:41, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Various editors commented that, according to Boeing's O&D, there appears to be unfilled orders of four 737-800 and two 737-700W. According to various published reports, Boeing is expected to suspend 737 production this week or next after completing a handful of 737 MAXes. If it were true there are still unfilled orders of (passenger) 737 NG, why doesn't Boeing put those 737 NG into final assembly??? --Now wiki (talk) 05:46, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

• There are unfilled orders for 3 737-700Ws, 4 737-800s, and 31 -800As (P-8s) through December 2019 in Boeing 737 O&D page. These are probably scheduled for delivery until later; customers may not need or want them now. -Fnlayson (talk) 14:45, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant unfilled orders of "passenger 737 NG". Can we tell how many completed passenger 737 NG are awaiting customer acceptance? Are they still counted as unfilled orders on Boeing's O&D? A word of caution, back in 2018 Boeing adopted ASC 606 and broke out the total unfilled orders (firm contractual commitment) into backlog and ASC 606 adjustment (orders Boeing believes unlikely to be delivered). Back when ASC 606 was first adopted, there were 60 737 orders classified as ASC 606 order. Currently, this has grown to 187 or 4% of unfilled orders. According to Boeing, actual backlog of 737 is 4,397, not the gross unfilled orders of 4,585. Furthermore, unfilled order report generated from Boeing's public website is drawn from firm orders, not actual backlog. AFAIK Boeing does not disclose if any unfilled orders of 737 NG is classified under ASC 606 adjustment. --Now wiki (talk) 16:22, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

It is likely that the three 700Ws are E-7s for the Royal Air Force, so not "passenger" aircraft". MilborneOne (talk) 15:43, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Noted. Updated NG orders and deliveries table and Boeing E-7 article. Suggest to remove from the article. --Now wiki (talk) 03:28, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Please wait for reliable sources. Mixing various refs is WP:Synthesis, WP:OR to avoid.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 20:12, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Can you point me to previous Boeing press release announcing the end of production of 737 Classic? Can you be more specific or tag in the article where you believe there's WP:Synthesis and/or WP:OR. --Now wiki (talk) 00:46, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Boeing 2000-02-28. It's Synthesis when you mix multiple refs to obtain a conclusion: the Boeing O&D + your "ASC 606" ref (no link given). --Marc Lacoste (talk) 04:37, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Boeing Commercial - Orders and Deliveries . *Note to Marc Lacoste: scroll to the bottom.* "During the first quarter of 2018, Boeing adopted a new revenue recognition accounting standard (ASC 606) which, among other things, imposes additional criteria for recognizing contracted backlog with customers beyond the existence of a firm contract to deliver. Apart from adding the table below and modifying the 'ASC 606 Changes' line in the Net Orders table, this site has not been adjusted for the adoption of ASC 606, and reflects all orders for which we have a firm contractual commitment. As such, aircraft identified for a specific customer on this site may not necessarily contribute to the totals for backlog and/or other amounts included in our financial statements." IIRC, Leeham news also has a post about that. --Now wiki (talk) 04:53, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

OK then, I corrected your addition to the Boeing 737 article with the exact quote. Inferring the backlog difference won't be delivered is way too speculative: it is an accounting ajustement to represent the company value, but the difference could be also firm orders in the process to be finalised with details, like delivery date, furnishing specifics, color of the seat cover, I don't know! You can use the ref as a way to explain the backlog isn't perfectly certain, but you should not assume the difference won't be delivered. Stick to the refs.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 09:55, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Absolutely not. It's not my speculation. It's from a Reuters' report about Boeing's orders received in 2019: "After an accounting adjustment representing jets ordered in previous years but are now unlikely to be delivered,". Also here: "In 2018, Boeing started keeping tracking of so called ASC 606 adjustments to better reflect their backlog. Th [sic] orders in the ASC 606 are unlikely to be delivered." Last year, Boeing removed 200 737 orders from Jet Airways as required under ASC 606 because the airline was in financial difficulty with operation ceased! Wichita Business Journal 24 April 2019 "The Boeing Co. has cut 210 orders from its first-quarter total to leave it with a net order deficit of 119 jets through the first three months of the year. Company spokesperson Paul Bergman says the orders were removed from its official backlog in relation to India's Jet Airways, which suspended operations last week amid liquidity issues. He says contractual agreements tied to those orders remain in place. The cuts are part of newer accounting measures (ASC 606) that dictate how customer-contract revenue can be recognized. " --Now wiki (talk) 13:18, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Reuters writes "are unlikely" not "won't" (note: you can give the url). The bizjournals article is one example, not a rule. I'm afraid you want to write the news before a reliable outlet is coming with it, which will happen eventually. Just wait a few days. Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 14:36, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

I said "unlikely to be delivered", not "won't", didn't I? No need to put words in my mouth. Are you trying to assert your own WP:POV when you dismiss the article from Wichita BJ? --Now wiki (talk) 14:52, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

what POV and how?--Marc Lacoste (talk) 23:47, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Treat it as an exception. Just "wait a few days"?? Have been waiting for over a month. --Now wiki (talk) 04:56, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

We could even wait for years or decades, it does not matter.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 07:56, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

---

I have rephrased the statements to show both sides and remove the template:inconsistent. I hope it will be enough for everybody so we can move on.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 09:09, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Just when we thought we could move on, we learn [1] that in January, Boeing delivered two commercial NGs to China Eastern Airlines. That article also tells us that "Boeing stopped assembling commercial 737NGs last year, but had not handed over all NGs to customers". And Boeing O&D still lists two 737-800s in the "unfilled" column – still with no way of knowing whether these are real aircraft to be delivered in the coming months, or just accounting adjustments 😉. What do we do now about the claim that KLM's were the last? Rosbif73 (talk) 14:28, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your scrutiny! The article is updated accordingly. Good sources are mightier than poor fact checking.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 22:55, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

There are still two -800 unfilled order at the end of May 2020. Seems like this orders might not get filled at this point, unless the aircraft are just stored?? -Fnlayson (talk) 16:12, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Order inconsistencies

From the lead of the article: As of November 30, 2019, a total of 7,092 Boeing 737NG aircraft have been ordered, of which 7,046 have been delivered, with remaining orders for the -700W, -800, and -800A variants.

From the body of the article: As of July 2018, all -700 series on order, 1,128 -700, 120 -700 BBJ, 20 -700C, and 14 -700W aircraft have been delivered.

Is this from new orders between the two dates? — MarkH₂₁^talk 19:19, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

The 2nd set of numbers are old and haven't been updated in a while. Simple as that. -Fnlayson (talk) 01:12, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Data inconsistencies

Information on this and other articles say that the short runway package is standard on the -900ER enabling use on runways shorter than 5000 ft, yet the data chart claims its runway length is 9,000 ft. Please resolve 50.247.253.194 (talk) 00:46, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Information update

Hello. I just wanted y'all to know that I changed the production date from 1996-present to 1996-2020 because it says otherwise in this article "Boeing stopped assembling passenger 737NGs in 2019, but made the final deliveries in January 2020.[2] It is superseded by the fourth generation Boeing 737 MAX, introduced in 2017". It also says in Boeing Commercial Airplanes that it is not produced anymore.73.230.178.114 (talk) 14:00, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

The NG is still produced, mostly for the military P8. All the 737s delivered since the MAX groundings have been NGs. So, cessation of production is a little premature. Ex nihil ^(talk) 20:10, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Exit Limit - expert needed to explain this

The Specifications section shows a category for "Exit Limit", showing a number, but no units.

This term is not one known to Wikipedia articles. Does anybody have an idea?

Maybe this search could help? https://www.google.com/search?as_eq=wikipedia&q=aircraft+exit+limit

Thanks, Trafford09 (talk) 07:39, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

It's the maximum number of occupants allowed by the emergency exits configuration.--Marc Lacoste (talk) 10:57, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Maximum passengers, not maximum occupants (i.e. flight crew and cabin crew aren't included in the count) DaveReidUK (talk) 07:54, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Indeed, thanks!--Marc Lacoste (talk) 08:03, 29 March 2022 (UTC)