Talk:Brütal Legend/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Someone another 23:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, as short-signed above I'm reviewing BR for GA promotion. The article is quite some size, a real kitchen sink job, so please bear with me as I gradually chew through it. I'll leave observations here as I go through. To start:

Images - all templates etc. seem fine. Although I won't hold back on promoting the article because of it, it would be good to see alternate text for the images. I also note Sabre's suggestion regarding the gameplay image on the article talk page. Not only do I agree; it looks very much like decoration rather than a truly utilized fair-use image; I'd also say the fair use rationale doesn't cover the image. There are numerous other possibilities for a screen shot which would illustrate BR's typical gameplay, could you find a replacement please?

Soundtrack section - as it stands it's like a roast turkey between two slices of bread - text on top, loooooong tracklist then a little more text underneath. Could I suggest i) finding a way to merge both sets of text ii) somehow collapsing that table so the reader doesn't have to slide down that huge ladder just to continue reading. In fact, the table would be even better if there was a way to put two sets of song and artist side-by-side, there's a lot of white space next to the ladder.

That's it for now, I'm really just scratching the surface so please don't expect a complete set of suggestions overnight. Someone another 15:55, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alts added, and I replaced the image (adding one showing a Stage Battle). Note that the game lacks a typical HUD and is third person with a controllable camera, so every screenshot is going to looked staged. Also fixed the soundtrack section. --MASEM (t) 20:44, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All internal links have been checked, a couple needed disambiguating, which I've done. The use of WP's resources to expand upon what the article itself contains is excellent. One thing though, there's a tendency to over-link band and people, IE to link them more than once in the article body (often with them linked in the soundtrack table as well). A skim is needed to remove the excessive links. Someone another 22:08, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I will take a look at the links once we're clear through on the text (just in case).

Neutrality and scope (both broad and narrow) are fine, I can comfortably say after going through. Someone another 22:15, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, here's some instances in the text I'd appreciate you looking at, as well as other misc. items:

Gameplay heading, 2nd paragraph: "Side missions include races with the Deuce" - to me 'racing with' means 'racing against', could you reword this and also mention the demon that's raced against?
Same paragraph: "the player can further customize which songs to hear from those they have been rewarded with or have collected.[4][7]" Create a playlist?
Gameplay heading, third paragraph: "Several main story missions of the game are "stage battles" based on real time strategy elements that make up the game's multiplayer mode." - correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first time the multiplayer mode is mentioned at all unless you count 'multiplayer' being in the infobox. I can see this confusing readers (the wording's unwieldy), and I'd suggest removing mention of multiplayer in this paragraph, it's dealt with in the next paragraph.
Same paragraph: "is required to defend a giant stage where new units will spawn, either while holding out until the enemy's attack is completed or after completing a specific objective." - 'units' would be better off as 'warriors/soldiers/allies', 'completed' doesn't sound right in reference to an attack, 'or after completing a specific objective' > 'or until a specific objective is achieved' or something along those lines would read better IMO.
Same paragraph: "Once the player has collected their army, they can then seek out to attack their opponents using their army as minions or directly with the main character." - 'collected' > 'gathered', 'seek out to' > 'seek out and', the last part of the sentence ('minions' onwards) could do with some clarifying.
Same paragraph: "such as temporarily buffing their attack skills or creating a rally flag which troops will gather at." - a small point but I think dropping 'buffing' in there rather than just saying their attack skills improve is dropping in an unneeded gamer term.
Gameplay, last paragraph, last sentence: "The game can also be played by a single player with AI bots at one of five difficulty levels." - 'AI bots' is again a bit gamer-ish rather than general reader-friendly.
There's something of a sourcing gap in the Plot and Characters sub-headings. The latter 2/3s of Characters and the latter 3 paragraphs of Plot are without sources. Although it is a lot less crucial for sourcing in these areas, I really would like to see some of this expanse covered by a source, please.
Plot, second paragraph: "Eddie decides that Ironheade needs to go on tour and attack Lionwhyte directly." Although it's a tour within the game's warped reality, it sounds strange to refer to launching an attack as 'a tour' in this context, a little reword please?
Same paragraph: "However, as they celebrate, Doviculus appears, sending the group into hiding." - 'going into hiding' suggests a prolonged period (like days or weeks), when the situation being referred to is like seconds, IIRC.
In the Plot sub-heading, I think it would be an idea to split a sentence or two from the end of paragraph three to join with paragraph four, four's a little small.
Under the main development heading, paragraph 2: "He credits Harmonix Music Systems for helping to shift the gaming landscape through the release.." - I understand what's being said, but it sounds a little.. flowery. Could you recast that statement without 'shift the gaming landscape'?
Paragraph 3 of Development: "Schafer has also commented that there will be a lot of Rock and Roll music references in the game" needs updating.

Phew, I'm stopping there for now, I've reached the 'Art Design' heading. Ideally I'd do this lot at once but heck there's a lot of it. Someone another 23:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

These should all be fixed and corrected. --MASEM (t) 20:44, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent, let's continue.

The final paragraph of Gameplay's second half is unsourced, though every single statement doesn't need sourcing to the hilt there's several facets not covered by a source.
Characters and Voice Acting sub-heading, third paragraph: "This led to some comedic and confusing voice recording sessions; both Lita Ford and Rob Halford had amusing difficulties with lines involving a character named "Lita Halford".[7]" - I think 'comedic' and 'amusing' need to go, they're not quite neutral and reflect too heavily on this coming from a primary source. Considering the sheer amount of information that has come from interviews, the fact that this is the first instance I can see is a credit to how well it has been kept reigned in.
Promotion sub-heading: there's a lot of wee paragraphs which could do with merging into one or two larger ones. The last three begin "A series of short", "A promotional concert for the" and "A demo version of"; it's visually jarring to have all those As lined up, could you reword one or two of them as well as condense the paragraphs please?
The Publishing Issues sub-heading needs re-aligning to past-tense in a few places.
IMO the Post-release support sub-heading would be better off being called 'downloadable content', although Double Fine are 'supporting' the game with additional content, the term suggests technical support without any other context.
On the same subject, how was the DLC received? I can't see any mention of reception for it.
Reception heading, first paragraph: "the heavy metal legends" - woah there, reword please?
Third paragraph of the same: "can remain elusive even a few hours into the game." - something like 'does not become apparent until the game has been played for several hours' would read a lot better.
Same paragraph: "but felt the game still left out portions of the RTS aspects, such as the ability to mount a final stand on one's stage, that would have been helpful to know.[87][88" - I am getting the message, but I think the point needs to be made more bluntly, 'the game left out' isn't really hitting home that these aspects of play are not explained, if you see what I mean.
At the end of the Gameplay section: the second-to-last paragraph ("According to data collected through Nielsen SoundScan,") should be tacked onto the previous one IMO, it's too short and indirectly related to the sales figures of the game. The very last item is a standalone sentence and unsourced. Since there's no other awards mentioned I'd suggest citing it and relocating it to Jack Black's voicework reception.

That's the text checked. I need to do a final check against the GA standards before putting the article on hold, in the meantime there's the above and the internal links to have a look at. Thanks for what you've done so far and for your patience. Someone another 02:12, 14 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the above are fixed. Do note that reception for DLC is a rarity (they'll announce it, but unless its comparable to the ones that came out for GTAIV or Fallout 3, reliable sources won't cover it much), and I haven't been able to find any for BL here. --MASEM (t) 05:40, 14 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Having double-checked the GA criteria (it's been a little while) I'm happy to say that Brutal Legend is now a good article. I would suggest striking while the iron's hot, submitting the article for peer review and pre-FA copy edit. If you could find some more cites for the plot section I think that would help as well. Excellent work Masem and congratulations to all who have contributed to the article. Someone another 00:50, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]