Talk:Closed-eye hallucination

Second person

I don't think an encyclopedia should be written in the second person, a rewrite should be done to at least correct that. I would do it, but it will probably be erased, so someone else should do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.218.30.165 (talk) 14:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

what

what is the cause of "CEV perception level 1: visual noise"? Tentative candidates are:

1. cortically generated
2. autofluorescence in visual organs
3. red blood cells visible somehow
4. light through eyelids

As far as I can tell It is most likely heat related noise which excites the Photoreceptor cells in the retina. since the temperature in the eye is quite high 37C and the eye is closed the signal to noise level drops to zero and one is able to experience the noise alone. Heat related noise or "Dark current" is quite visible digital camcorders when they have a high gain "ISO" and shoot video in a dark room. Astronomers experience heat related noise in their CCD cameras as well. Their solution to the problem is to chill the CCD using liquid nitrogen at −196 °C,aza (talk) 13:54, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I would like to point out that the dark red colour one sees when light passes through skin like the eyelid is not due to the light picking up the colour of blood. It is because only light at lower wavelengths (including the red end of the visible light spectrum) can pass through. Demonstrate this to yourself by hold a green laser pen and a red laser pen to the palm of your hand - you will only be able to see the red laser pen on the other side of your hand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.32.126.16 (talk) 10:11, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Poor Article

This article really needs a clean up. It reads like somebody copy and pasted a bunch of text from erowid.org. The article should have names, descriptions of the hallucinations, causes. It should read like an encyclopedia entry. It is also factually incorrect. I have personally taught several hundred people how to reach the so-called "level 4" in a single meditation session -- with no drugs.

As I'm not qualified to fix it myself, I'm putting the cleanup template up. 216.99.209.252 09:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this article is lacking credibility. The statements made in the article can not be attributed to erowid. There are major contradictions between the article and information available at erowid. Since erowid does provide information on the effects different substances I placed an external link. There are things that I personally feel is not correct based on my own experiences. I will try to find legitimate references before making changes. 65.43.32.36 08:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I would be interested to know more about the causes of these hallucinations, as I experience them mildly in abscence of drug use.68.253.32.54 09:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

As noted this seems innaccurate: I achieve level 4 without even meditating these days (however, it was meditation that caused my first level 4 experience) I'm not sure my level 4 experience could even be described as mild, they're highly vivid, and solid object-based, although they rarely include full surroundings. At the time of my first such experience the only significantly psychoactive chemical I had ever ingested was caffeine. There seems to be a generally overestimation of the difficulty of achieving these levels in this article (well, either that or I have a much easier time than normal) I won't edit it myself unless I can find a citation one way or the other on that issue. -Kingreaper 16:19, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

It would appear the most of the information here was copy-pasted from "Experience festival" [1] 216.114.64.6 (talk) 21:55, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

references and visualization

I have added the first citation and a reference to "Jurij Moskvitin, Essay on the origin of thought". I have also added a few "simulations" of CEV as animated gifs. Since the experience of CEV, might be highly individual I would like a little feedback form you.

I have also been bold and added a reference to heat related noise in "CEV perception level 1: visual noise"? aza (talk) 14:05, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I would like to see some references on this and am particularly interested in the level 1 phenomenon, as both the animation and the description are qualitatively similar to my personal experience of visual snow. Both articles could benefit from references on this phenomenon. --tijmz (talk) 19:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Note

Image burn-in -> Afterimage? There's an article for afterimage but not for "image burn-in" and comparing the two it seems that they are the same thing.

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Closed Eye Hallucination Or Not?

If I apply intense pressure to my eyes, over a long periods of time, I can have level 3 CEHs. Such as tricolor pyramids and stars. I am pretty sure that everyone has this ability. The only thing is that it is so much pressure that the pain is nearly unbearable. Should this be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.39.16.71 (talk) 10:17, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Those are phosphenes, dude. (Really though you should not need pressure to the point of pain to get them. Just give your eyes a good hard rub for a few seconds.)Treharne (talk) 08:17, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

When I apply pressure to my eyes I eventually end up seeing a tunnel of light that I accelerate through, and eventually it dissolves into a firework:esque display with a multitude of colors and shapes. When I simply close my eyes and focus on the "noise" I start seeing random shapes, grids and if I'm concentrated enough various photorealistic images lasting a fraction of a second pop up. These images or scenes are of seemingly random things, like when I tried it just now I saw a girl in a dress crossing a road and after that a couple of bright flashes of light that eventually "morphed" into a fractal-looking spiral that flew around. Now, these things are surely CEV's and I remain fully concious, in an awake, non-dreaming state. I wonder if any experienced psychedelic user could describe the kind of visuals you see when under the influence of let's say LSD. Are those more vivid than these or? I'm really curious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.70.211.86 (talk) 02:20, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Phosphenes

It seems to me that the phenomena described here clearly are a form of phosphene, despite the strong statement to the contrary. Phosphenes are not defined as being caused by mechanical stimulation, any quasi-visual experience that arises from any sort of non-photic input into the visual system is a phosphene. As the phosphene entry rightly says "Phosphenes can be directly induced by mechanical, electrical, or magnetic stimulation of the retina or visual cortex as well as by random firing of cells in the visual system."

I am going to change the statement that they are not phosphenes, but really this entry should be merged with Phosphene. (By an editor who knows how.)Treharne (talk) 08:17, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Level 4

I have never taken drugs in my life, yet I'm able to reach level 4 easily. Is this a sign of mental illness? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.40.230.65 (talk) 03:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

No. You might be experiencing hypnagogic hallucinations, say -- periods of hallucination when you're essentially just between wake and sleep -- that are not uncommon at all. Happening often and in combination with other symptoms, they can be indicative of narcolepsy, but lots of people experience them at some point, and I think they're also pretty common with general sleep deprivation. 76.105.26.172 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC).

I also never take drugs in my life, but I see hallucinations of level 4 since yesterday. I close my eyes or cover my eyes, wait for some seconds, then my sight turns into complete black, like lowering a certain before Act. Then some images appear in the darkness, only things I hate Like a horrible flower, cat, ghost, wolf, dreary cave or voodoo dolls. Everytime. Should I have to see phychiatry Dr? What's wrong with me? Can't I get rid of this situation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.95.18.227 (talk) 15:05, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I have never taken drugs nor do I meditate.I have experienced level 4 all of my life. When I was a kid it was extremly colorful and vivid though now at the age of 18 I can see only the gray outline of what I would be seeing. All of this happens in any dark space. It doesn't have to be night time and I don't have to be tired. I feel normal so I do not know if this is a disease. I am annoyed because I can relate very much with the article but it has few sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.150.159.1 (talk) 01:08, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Twice in the last week I have seen a vision of sorts when I closed my eyes. The first instance I saw a tree like it was thru a telescope. Indeed in the days before I had been using a telescope on a similar tree in my yard. Trying to determine the azimuth of the moon with reference to a tree in my yard. When the "vision" happened I was laying on my sofa. At first I said to myself wow that was quick, perhaps a record falling to sleep so fast. Then I'm awake for sure. I close my eyes again and there is the "vision" again. Then the next day I was going to sleep at the end of the day and when I closed my eyes I could see a monkey, I opened my eyes and verified that indeed I had not been asleep and then when I closed my eyes the monkey vision had changed a bit this time the monkey was moving. I remember seeing a short bit on a nature documentary about carnivorous chimps. This is not like a persistence of vision thing. It seems to be all in my head. No I don't use drugs.

Magic Shadows intro

The introduction to the TV series Magic Shadows included what I'm fairly sure is a depiction of "Level 4" CEV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.110.175 (talk) 10:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

"Corneal Liquid"

This section, as written, seems to be original research/misinterpretation. Floaters are not air bubbles on the surface of the cornea or whatever the author is implying. There doesn't appear to be a scholarly source cited for this information either. Should be re-written. 71.139.166.154 (talk) 06:20, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Levels - original research?

Are there any citations for ordering those phenomena from level 1–5? Level 3 is far easier to achieve for me than level 2, but there is probably no informal consensus on that, since someone was sure enough that 3 ranks above 2 to put them that way in the article. 78.0.214.21 (talk) 19:22, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Redirect from "Visual Snow"

Shoudn't this lead to visual snow syndrome? Most people would describe it as static, the term visual snow from what i've seen is primarily used in a medical context. Most people searching for the term visual snow will be looking for info on the condition. PikaBoop (talk) 18:59, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. The visual snow syndrome page is a biomedical page that seems appropriate for such redirects. This page on the other hand seems to be an amalgamation of various unrelated phenomena. The 'five stages' concept that the page is built around was introduced without reference almost two decades ago and still doesn't have a reference; I'd almost go so far as to suggest deleting this page. Transform8395 (talk) 00:54, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

When Pnyeg moved Visual snow to Visual snow syndrome, the comment said Visual snow itself is not a disease, but a phenomenon that exists within the eye. Less than a year later, Florian Blaschke changed the target to Closed-eye hallucination to avoid confusion and as a .. useful description of the non pathological phenomenon. Jay 💬 11:32, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Visual snow syndrome does have a section clarifying the perception of visual snow/static itself can be a normal phenomenon, but for solely separation from the neurological condition I think Ganzfeld effect may be a better target. Unfortunate how there doesn't appear to be an official term for common forms of visual static. Ruzes (talk) 09:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

I put in a request to change the redirect. I was about to boldly do it myself but it seems like that is frowned upon. I don't think the quality of this article justifies the redirects. Gracchus123 (talk) 04:43, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

That request was rejected because Articles for creation is for creation of new articles, where as your request was for change of target of the redirects. I agree that a bold redirect to Visual snow syndrome was not advisable since Ruzes thinks that Ganzfeld effect may be a better target. Jay 💬 07:50, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

I would also consider Visual snow syndrome#Common misconceptions an acceptable target. Perhaps even as a solid middle ground between all the points being made, containing a useful description of visual snow as a non-pathological event, and the section already linking to both here and Ganzfeld effect. Ruzes (talk) 11:06, 26 May 2024 (UTC)