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Reviewer: Jason Rees (talk · contribs) 18:51, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]


At @Hurricanehink:'s request I have decided to review this article for GA Class, despite your rather rude edit summary towards me: "How dare you call it Start-class!" I hope by doing this review you will realise why I rated it as Start and not as a C or a B and will work towards improving the article.

I am very sorry. I did not want it to be another start. I haven't created very many articles, and look at them. List of Alabama hurricanes: C. Cyclone Herold: Start. List of intense tropical cyclones: Start. List of extremely severe cyclonic storms: Start. List of Category 2 Atlantic hurricanes: Start. And when I saw yet another start article, I went crazy and said, "How dare you call it Start class" But I didn't mean it. Thank you for taking so much time to review this article, 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 12:55, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you are prepared to put in the work, then those article ratings can be revised upwards over time but only if you put the effort in.Jason Rees (talk) 00:31, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In List of Category 2 Atlantic hurricanes, I gather that the fact that the lead ends before the preview thing ends is a pretty good sign that the lead is way too short. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 10:39, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah that needs more content in both the leads and the background sections, but let's deal with Owen first.Jason Rees (talk) 12:42, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

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  • You state that Owen was also the earliest tropical cyclone in a season ever to form in the Coral Sea - So bearing in mind that the Coral Sea does not start at 160E, I wonder why Liua 2018 doesn't count even though it formed in the Coral Sea.
Done. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 11:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Owen was the third tropical low, first tropical cyclone, and first severe tropical cyclone of the 2018–19 Australian region cyclone season - this is fine except it was called Tropical Low 04U by the BoM.
Done. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 11:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove the references from the lead as the lead is meant to be a summary of the article as a whole and shouldn't contain information that isnt in the article's body.
Done, except for two named references that are defined in the lead. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 11:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done two named references. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 11:06, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the lead I would separate the MH and Impact sections and limit it to one paragraph of each and structure it a lot better.
  • As a tropical low, Owen produced some minor impacts in Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands. - This isn't true as the Papua New Guinea National Weather Service states in their country report to the World Meteorological Organisation that Owen caused significant impacts across PNG southern coastline with wind gusts and flooding.
Would you mind sharing that reference with me? I can't find it in my sources. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 12:36, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Papua New Guinea's country report is here. The source that you cite for Papua New Guinea damage is a reference from the JTWC that doesnt talk about the damage.Jason Rees (talk) 17:56, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Slight problem. When I try to look at it, this sign-in notice pops up. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 10:36, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

MH

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  • The MH is just a mess and doesnt tell the story of Owen properly:
  • Firstly this section needs to be removed as it is just fluff: In late November 2018, an area of low pressure persisted in the Coral Sea. The possibility of the area to strengthen into a tropical cyclone was marked as "low". On 27 November, the low pressure area was recognized as Invest 97P by the Joint Typhoon Warning Center (JTWC). Invest 97P moved close to the Solomon Islands, causing minor rainfall.[6] Then, on 29 November, the low pressure area strengthened into a tropical low over the Solomon Islands.
Removed. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 11:26, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It would be better if you opened the MH section by saying something along the lines of During 29 November, the Australian Bureau of Meteorology reported that Tropical Low 04U had developed about 500 km (310 mi) to the northwest of Honiara in the Solomon Islands. This can be cited back to the BoM's TC Database and is the way I opened Harold's MH.
  • You should then say that "Over the next couple of days, the system moved southwards over the Solomon Sea and gradually developed further, with atmospheric convection consolidating close to the centre - This should then be cited back to the BoM's first technical bulletin.
  • You need to add in details about what happened between TC formation and its first degeneration. This should include when the JTWC classfied it as Tropical Cyclone 05P, when it became a Category 1 tropical cyclone on the Australian tropical cyclone intensity scale and named Owen by the BoM, its initial peak intensity by both agencies and why it degenerated into a tropical low.Jason Rees (talk) 18:46, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Done. MarioJump83! 07:41, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Going west, on 4 December Owen weakened into a tropical low, briefly turned extratropical before becoming fully tropical again,[5] and traveled towards Queensland.[6] On December 9, Cyclone Owen degenerated into a low-pressure area - The system degenerated into a tropical low end off, it didn't become an extratropical cyclone while a tropical low and area of low pressure is basically the same thing.Jason Rees (talk) 18:46, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm confused, and don't know what to do right now. The MH is a mess, but I spent three weeks looking for sources to put in it, and I gathered all the information I could. Do I have to spend another three weeks doing the exact same thing? Or can you direct me to something that has the sources that include the content you want me to put in the article? Because I'm not one of those users who has created 69 featured articles, 485 good articles, and 883 total articles. I've only created six, including Owen. Unless you count List of nicknamed tropical cyclones, created by my IP, improved by me, and deleted soon after. Anyway, I'm not quite sure what the sources you want me to find are. Thanks, 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 11:03, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Testing new signature that more clearly indicates my talk page[reply]
      • @Hurricanehink: pointed you towards the sources you need to use for the MH the other day. Anyway, the main sources are here, in particular, you need to look at the TWO's technical bulletins and JTWC warnings and take out the stiff like when the JTWC classfied it as Tropical Cyclone 05P, when it became a Category 1 tropical cyclone on the Australian tropical cyclone intensity scale and named Owen by the BoM, its initial peak intensity by both agencies and why it degenerated into a tropical low..Jason Rees (talk) 12:30, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If I may, think of the MH as a story. You're telling why the storm moved the way it did, why it strengthened, all of that fun stuff. However, you need to make sure it is an organized narrative. That's why you don't include impacts like rainfall in the MH (you put them in impacts). Part of writing a good MH is having a good knowledge of the storms, so I gotta ask Chicdat (talk · contribs), is there anything about Owen's MH that you need any explanation for? It is, admittedly, a complicated storm. Sometimes it takes a while to write a good article, so no worries if you have any questions. I can't speak for Jason, but I know that all we want is to have the best possible article for the readers. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:18, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

huh... I'll keep that in mind. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 11:33, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, actually. How do find the BoM records of Cyclone Owen? Thanks, 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 11:40, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We keep pointing you towards them as they are located in here. In particular, you need to look at the Technical Bulletins.Jason Rees (talk) 12:14, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
...and those were the only ones I didn't look at. Thank you, 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 12:38, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What do I put in |title= ? 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 13:05, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just put whatever down for now - we can look at them later.Jason Rees (talk) 13:14, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What do I say in the MH, "favorable" or "favourable"? 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:37, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As far as i know its favourable since this is an Australian article.Jason Rees (talk) 23:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What do I do now? There are no technical bulletins between 4 December 06z and 11 December 00z. Thanks, 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:27, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have just got in from work, so give me chance to read what you have put down and what the sources before i get back to you.Jason Rees (talk) 12:08, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hink and I have decided that the next step is for you to use the TCR, STWA's and TWO's to get yourself to the 11th.Jason Rees (talk) 10:29, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, and thank you. --🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:33, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Er... the BoM TCR isn't exactly detailed: "The remains of Owen turned west and approached the north tropical coast of Queensland about six days later" is the only sentence that fits in these days. Isn't really an awesome source if one sentence can cover six days. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:54, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It may not be an awesome source but it still needs to be used, since its the BoM's TCR for the system, besides which you should be using a variety of sources and not just relying on one.Jason Rees (talk) 23:08, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Techical bulletins are...
 Done 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 12:55, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Jason Rees: See above message. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 11:06, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thats good news - the MH is getting better but isnt there yet - dont forget you have to include information from both the BoM and the JTWC and attribute your sources properly.Jason Rees (talk) 14:16, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What does "attribution" mean? 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:43, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(2+ weeks later) Okay, I'll reword it, as I've read WP:A now: How do I attribute my sources? 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 11:23, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops - This GAN completely slipped my mind amongst all the crap with ACE - anyway have a look at the sources your using, which agency wrote the advisory your citing JTWC or BoM. Take for example Ref 6 you attribute it to the JTWC but its acctully the BoM who issued the advisory.Jason Rees (talk) 11:27, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the comment at last! 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 11:28, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking of the ACE, I actually didn't really like it like it was before you revamped it. As an IP, I tried to add in the NIO data for 2019, but it was reverted. Anyway, do I need to change the publisher of all the bulletin refs, or is it just ref 6? 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 11:34, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Go through and double-check all of the references rather than relying upon me - if the says Brisbane TCWC then it should be attributed to the BoM and not the JTWC :) Jason Rees (talk) 11:43, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Doing... 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 11:44, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 11:49, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, Jason Rees. Not in the entire article does it say "United States Joint Typhoon Warning Center". What now? 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:25, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What I need to do is go through this article with a fine toothcomb to tweak it and get it up to standards when I get chance. For now just tyr and find more preps/impact.Jason Rees (talk) 21:02, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's like last time. When I search "cyclone owen impact", 2.4 million results spring up, and I manage to scrape five that actually have real information on Owen that isn't "They say tropical cyclone Owen could impact Queensland later this week..." yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that! It isn't much to add to the impact section of Owen. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:33, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep looking - A google for Cyclone Owen Impact isnt likely to turn up much but a search for Cyclone Owen would.Jason Rees (talk) 12:56, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm looking right now. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:10, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Found a great source. I added a whole paragraph to the impact in Queensland. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 11:38, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Preparations and Impacts

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  • I would combine these two sections and call it Effects.
Done. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 11:18, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • On December 2, a warning was issued for the Solomon Islands. - The link cited does not contain a warning for the Solomon Islands and I would be surprised if the Solomon Islands Meteorological Service had issued a tropical cyclone warning.
  • The rest of the warnings in that first paragraph are not backed up by the sources cited and are original research, as the BoM did not issue any tropical cyclone warnings for Queensland on its first pass. I also note that Owen did not abruptly turn extratropical and that it just weakened into a tropical low. I also doubt that Owen was briefly seen as a threat to New Caledonia by either the BoM or Meteo France.

References

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  • I noticed that you put website=Web Cite|publisher=National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration for all of the references reagrdless of if they came from the BoM or JTWC.
Done for JTWC. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 12:04, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done for BoM. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 10:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You dont need to/shouldnt put website=webcite.Jason Rees (talk) 13:53, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What website should I do? Mind you, it doesn't really matter because most all of them were removed. 🐔 Chicdat ChickenDatabase 10:34, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need to put website= in your citations.Jason Rees (talk) 12:57, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. I'll remember that. Thanks a lot, 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 12:35, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fresh set of eyes for review

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  • First things first, the MH should just be one section in its entirety. Try making it an even three paragraphs each, finding logical spots for paragraph breaks. Also, there's blank space in the impact section. Please remove that. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:51, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Other issues.

Here's just a quick look through the article. The article is alright, but it's far from what's expected of a good article. You can take seven days to fix it up, but I'm thinking it could take a bit more work to get this to good article status. Still, I'll leave it on hold for a bit in case you want to try, and in case you have any questions. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Hurricanehink: I've tried quite hard, if I say so myself. How about a not-so-quick look through the article and another long set of things for me to correct. I'm having fun here! 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:54, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Tropical Cyclone Owen – An Early Tropical Cyclone". weatherwatch.net.au. Weatherwatch. 3 December 2018. Retrieved 6 July 2020.

Few more things. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:05, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Owen formed on November 29 from an area of low pressure situated over the Solomon Islands, which itself formed on November 27." - where did you get Nov 27? Did the islands form then? :P
     Done 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "As a tropical low, Owen produced some minor impacts in Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands. " - the lead should have one paragraph about the storm and its history, then another paragraph with the impacts
     Done 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Not done. "The final advisory was issued on December 17, when Owen was situated between Townsville and Cairns. However, Cyclone Owen's extratropical remnants persisted until December 20. The erratic path of Owen is thought to come from a high-pressure area that tracked near the storm. " - this is all in the second paragraph. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:34, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • " It was dubbed the "zombie cyclone" by who? It's also kinda trivial, unless the BOM were to do it (kinda like if the NHC called it as such)
    By half the media sources, but that doesn't matter, I've removed it. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You didn't remove it. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:34, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Cyclone Owen rapidly intensified into a Category 3, and circled around the Gulf of Carpentaria. Then, it struck Queensland. " - it had already struck Queensland before. Could you mention the first landfall in the lead?
    Done. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Owen also had the highest rainfall ever recorded in the month of December, with rainfall in Halifax, Queensland reaching 661 mm (26 in)." - that's awkward and not really true. The source says that three locations recorded their highest daily December rainfall totals, including one location that had its highest ever December daily rainfall total.
    Changed substantially both times it was mentioned to reflect the source. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It should be emphasized that these are daily rainfall records. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:34, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done — everything is done! 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me! 10:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Coral sea bit still isn't sourced.
     Done See below.
  • Ref 33 doesn't cover the content about the Solomon Islands.
     Done See below
  • Given how little happened outside of Queensland, could you remove the sub-sections for the impact section? You could have one paragraph for PNG and Solomons, have a paragraph for Australia as a whole, then one for Queensland and NT each. My beef with the current setup is that you say it caused $25M in damage in the Queensland paragraph. Speaking of, ref 35 doesn't mention the damage total. You need to make sure that every reference covers the content of the article. It won't be a good article without that.
     Done see below
  • My bad about the bit about Halifax. You should indeed mention that this was Australia's highest ever daily December rainfall. That's more significant than "the region", which you had before. I'd mention the date that this occurred.
     Done see below
  • "Extremely heavy winds devastated Cape York in northern Australia." - this is useless without a more specific windspeed. "Extremely heavy" could be a wide range.
     Done see below
  • "Owen's landfalls brought effects hundreds of miles inland." - watch out using miles here, since Australia uses kilometres.
     Done. SMB99thx my edits 22:49, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Owen's second and most severe landfall left thousands of residents powerless." - the source says 2,400
     Done SMB99thx my edits 22:46, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 41 doesn't mention anything about landslides actually occurring (just the potential). Likewise, the ref doesn't say that the rains actually put out the fires. So where are you getting that from? Also, where in the source does it say a drowning occurred? More significant in the source is the water rescues, which I think you should mention.
     Done. See below.
  • "As a post-tropical low" - wait, post-tropical? Where did this come from?
     Done. See below.
  • "Rainfall amounted to about 20 mm (0.79 in) in total." - unless I'm missing something, this isn't covered by the source.
     Done. See below.
  • "and warnings in Northern Territory were lifted" - this is the first time you mentioned warnings. Were there any preparations for the storm? Any cyclone warnings?
     Done. See below.
  • In general, the article is very short on detail about what the storm did. Your writing is a bit choppy in places. More significant of a problem is the sourcing, for which I have to fail the GAN. The article is a good effort, but you need to make sure that every piece of information in the article is cited to a particular reference. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:34, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, there are some fixes since then. Please see further reviews at Talk:Cyclone Owen/GA2 (if you stumble upon this page at Article Alerts). SMB99thx my edits! 13:57, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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