Talk:Darian Durant/GA1
GA Review
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Reviewer: Brad78 (talk) 14:00, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I can't find any major problems with the article, in fact the prose is fine and I have very few issues. However, it seems very short on detail, and I don't think the article would pass criteria 3 on the good article criteria. Do you think you could find some more sources to add details or improve the article?
Another couple of points, while I'm here.
- Opening line of the lead. "Darian Bernard Durant (born August 19, 1982 in Florence, South Carolina) is the starting quarterback for the Saskatchewan Roughriders of the Canadian Football League (CFL)." I'd change to something along the lines of "... is an American footballer and the starting quarterback for ..."
- Personal section. This is very short. I'd be tempted to add some of his family details right at the start of the article (for the time being) as part of the high school section. Secondly, some of the details say how he styled his game, and I'd include this elsewhere in his career details. His education could probably be included in the college section.
- In the Saskatchewan Roughriders, I'd include more details of how many games he played in the text. It isn't obvious that he didn't play in the 2006 and 2007 seasons for instance.
- No dead links. There is a link to disambig page Michael Bishop.
I'll keep this page on review for the time being rather than put on hold. Brad78 (talk) 14:11, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Further comments
[edit]thanks for the comments, can you give some more details about what is missing. I realize it isn't especially long, but I don't think it overtly neglectsa significant portions of his life / career. Just looking for soe guidance to improve, thanks for the help already, I appreciate it. :) Canada Hky (talk) 02:19, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
- I'm still unsure about the use of the personal section. It merges information from different points of his life and includes who his modeled his career on.
- I removed the section about his football idol, I agree its a small section, but the info doesn't really fit elsewhere.
- Do you have any more details about his career at High School?
- I added some more detail.
- "established many season and career records at the school." How many is many? Which years? Which records? Or is this what follows?
- Removed and clarified this, I think.
- I don't like the overuse of brackets in the College section. It makes for poor prose.
- Agreed, and fixed.
- "Durant was briefly on the team's practice roster, but was cut during the 2005 season partly due to concerns about his size." What were the other reasons? Did he see any game time even during training?
- Partly was a bit of a weasel word, the source only mentions his size, so that is what I clarified. I haven't been able to find any sources about what action he saw during training camp.
- "he dressed as the team's backup" dressed as sounds as very much like jargon. I certainly wouldn't know what it meant but for the context and presume it means played as back-up. Does it for example, mean he played at all?
- I believe I have clarified this.
- "He attempted and completed a single pass during the season, for 14 yards, and also had only one rushing attempt, for 20 yards." If he was on the practice roster, how did he manage this? Did he play one game? Who against? When? Why did he play? Why didn't he play any more games?
- I think this has been clarified as well.
- "but did not see any game action as the team's third string quarterback." This implies he did not make being the team's third string quarterback. Is this right? I suggest re-writing into more plain English.
- Fixed, I think.
- "Led by starting quarterback Kerry Joseph, the Roughriders defeated the Winnipeg Blue Bombers in the Grey Cup." Is this particularly relevant to Durant? Perhaps re-write to make it more relevant to the article in question.
- I wanted to mention that he has won a championship, as that is usually a big thing for a player's career, I think I have re-worked this to focus on Durant.
- "opening up the Roughriders' quarterback position." Sounds like jargon again. The whole sentence doesn't really have a main verb because of the passive voice of the first clause. I'd suggest trying to re-write it.
- I think this was fixed up, but please let me know if it needs more work.
- "Bishop was waived shortly after" waived sounds like jargon too. Does this mean he left? Released? Etc?
- Clarified.
- " Durant headed into the 2009 season as the favourite to win the club's starting quarterback job.[13] Durant entered the 2009 season as the club's starting quarterback," Sounds a bit repetitive and bitty.
- Fixed, one of those was left after a rewrite.
- "Durant responded to the opportunity and pressure well," Who says? Needs a source.
- Clarified, I think.
- "becoming the first Roughrider quarterback since Kent Austin to start all 18 games." Who is Kent Austin? When did he play?
- Fixed that up.
- There are few details about how Durant performed in the 2009 season.
- Added some
- "Heading into the 2010 season, one of Durant's goals was to cut down his interceptions." One of sounds vague. Are there any quotes for this? Does he have any other goals?
- I'd personally try to find more sources to make the article more in-depth. As it stands, it sounds just like a couple of statistical details, with Durant barely seeing any game time.
- Prior to this season, he has seen action in 33 games at the professional level. Not a huge body of work
Hope this helps and you can make some headway. I'll put it on hold for now. Brad78 (talk) 22:51, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
- I have addressed most of these, I will work on adding some more details about his career. Thanks very much for your help!Canada Hky (talk) 00:57, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
- Nothing on his playing style which is poor. What are his strengths and weaknesses? Aaroncrick TALK 22:55, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
- I would love to, but I can't find anything reliable that really discusses his style in detail. Lots of message board posts where he is either the next Doug Flutie or a bum, but not a detailed scouting report. I will keep looking. Canada Hky (talk) 00:57, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
- I found a couple articles, and added a bit of material in the professional section
- I would love to, but I can't find anything reliable that really discusses his style in detail. Lots of message board posts where he is either the next Doug Flutie or a bum, but not a detailed scouting report. I will keep looking. Canada Hky (talk) 00:57, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I haven't got round to a re-review until now. Looking loads better. Just one or two final points:
- I'm still unsure about the personal life section. It's a bit of a rag-tag section of information, some of which I feel is better elsewhere, e.g. his family should be up front because that relates to his life before football, and his major should be in that part of his career.
- Do you mean moving the entire personal life section to the start? We really have no recent CFL good articles, so I have been modeling this after some of the hockey GA's I have written and reviewed. I know that his family stuff chronologically comes before his high school career, etc, but he is notable for his football career, so I tried to make that the most prominent. I did move the info about his degree to the university section. Another option to change the title to "Off the field".
- Have a look at some featured sports biographies, e.g. Don Bradman and Thierry Henry, for ideas how to structure a biography. They both start off with early, personal details. I appreciate that with less details, it's not always easy to get the structure perfect, but those examples might help out. Brad78 (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
- I think I have this fixed up. I did still end up keeping the "Personal life" section, but have moved the appropriate "Early life" material to the start of the article. I based this on Roberto Luongo and Henrik Sedin.Canada Hky (talk) 01:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
- Have a look at some featured sports biographies, e.g. Don Bradman and Thierry Henry, for ideas how to structure a biography. They both start off with early, personal details. I appreciate that with less details, it's not always easy to get the structure perfect, but those examples might help out. Brad78 (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
- Do you mean moving the entire personal life section to the start? We really have no recent CFL good articles, so I have been modeling this after some of the hockey GA's I have written and reviewed. I know that his family stuff chronologically comes before his high school career, etc, but he is notable for his football career, so I tried to make that the most prominent. I did move the info about his degree to the university section. Another option to change the title to "Off the field".
- "While at North Carolina, Durant's favorite memory was a 41–9 defeat of Florida State." Is there a particular reason this was his favourite memory? If not, it looks like a trivial fact at the moment.
- Agreed, removed.
- I liked the line, just wasn't sure how relevant it was. If you can get more details, I'd put it back in, but for the time being, I think it's best to leave out. Brad78 (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
- I kind of liked it too, and I will keep looking for more detail to re-add and expand it.Canada Hky (talk) 01:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
- I liked the line, just wasn't sure how relevant it was. If you can get more details, I'd put it back in, but for the time being, I think it's best to leave out. Brad78 (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
- Agreed, removed.
- I still don't know what the verb "dressed" means.
- It just means that he was physically dressed on the sidelines, and available to go into the game, I changed it to "was active".
- Maybe, it's just the technical jargon, but I'm also struggling with "was active". Is there a wikilink for "dressed"? If it means was part of the squad but didn't play, I'd change it to something along those lines so readers of all backgrounds can understand it. Brad78 (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
- I found more detailed stats for the 08 season, and just made note of the number of games he started and played in. Canada Hky (talk) 01:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
- Maybe, it's just the technical jargon, but I'm also struggling with "was active". Is there a wikilink for "dressed"? If it means was part of the squad but didn't play, I'd change it to something along those lines so readers of all backgrounds can understand it. Brad78 (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
- It just means that he was physically dressed on the sidelines, and available to go into the game, I changed it to "was active".
- "Heading into the 2010 season, Durant wanted to cut down on his interceptions, although he tried to be optimistic, "I throw 21 picks last year and I guarantee every guy with better stats than me wishes they were in the Grey Cup."" I know the source says "I throw" but the tense doesn't sound correct to me. Should it not be "I threw"?
- Grammatically, I think it should be "threw", but I have no grounds to change the quote. Also, from listening to many athlete's interviews, its not the most egregious grammatical error I have seen. Is this a case for using [sic]?
- I was wondering about using the term (sic) but at the moment, the sentence doesn't make gramatical sense without changing the quote. Go with which option you feel best. Brad78 (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
- I added the [sic]. I think its the best way. Canada Hky (talk) 01:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
- I was wondering about using the term (sic) but at the moment, the sentence doesn't make gramatical sense without changing the quote. Go with which option you feel best. Brad78 (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
- Grammatically, I think it should be "threw", but I have no grounds to change the quote. Also, from listening to many athlete's interviews, its not the most egregious grammatical error I have seen. Is this a case for using [sic]?
Once these are fixed or looked at, I reckon this is a pass. Brad78 (talk) 20:18, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Smashing work. Everything now looks in fantastic shape. The main point, I've always been worried about was whether this would meet criteria 3, on breadth and depth of coverage. I'm now more than satisfied that a lot of good work has been put in to make sure this isn't a problem any more. Also, a second critic's comments about style of play have also been addressed to some point with additions about his game. Indeed for a player who is as yet possibly in the infancy of his career, this is a good piece of work. Any concerns I had about possible jargon which might not be obvious to a non-fan have also been addressed. This now meets all the GA criteria, so I've no concerns about passing it. Great work. Brad78 (talk) 21:50, 29 September 2010 (UTC)