Talk:Dutch barge

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dutch barge article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Ships

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ships, a project to improve all Ship-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other articles, please join the project, or contribute to the project discussion. All interested editors are welcome. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.ShipsWikipedia:WikiProject ShipsTemplate:WikiProject ShipsShips articles

Netherlands

This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Netherlands, an attempt to create, expand, and improve articles related to the Netherlands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page where you can join the project or contribute to the discussion.NetherlandsWikipedia:WikiProject NetherlandsTemplate:WikiProject NetherlandsNetherlands articles

Transport

	Transport portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Transport, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TransportWikipedia:WikiProject TransportTemplate:WikiProject TransportTransport articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Spitz_barge

Would this Spitz_barge be a "dutch type" barge? Also, please help with the page if you can. thanks GloverEpp (talk) 19:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well as the article says, it's a Belgian design not Dutch. What "dutch type" means I don't know: the appellation Dutch Barge is often used for replicas which are very different from the original so it could be close. It might also classify as a "peniche" since it was designed for the Freycinet gauge locks. Chris55 (talk) 13:27, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge with schuyt

Apparently two articles on the same topic but I would appreciate input from experts! Our schuyt article has just been created. The Dutch schuit article is already connected to our Dutch barge, which has been around since 2007. gidonb (talk) 00:30, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support: I was a bit hopeful back there in hoping my friends who lived aboard the red-linked variants in this article would add their own articles. But it didn't happen. Also there is considerable regional variation in terminology and translations from Dutch and not a lot of people are interested in old boats. So a consolidation is overdue.

With Chrome it's now easier to get translations from the Dutch but it doesn't help much. This article's sister in Dutch is called "Schuit (vaartuig)" where Schuit is sometimes translated boat and sometimes barge, whereas the general term is "Binnenvaartschip" though this is more commonly used for today's monsters. I'd be willing to help with reshaping this article. e.g. a better English parallel occurs in the Thames sailing barge article. Chris55 (talk) 13:13, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support: I created the schuyt article yesterday, but can't claim any real insight into Dutch watercraft. It seems that the term "schuyt" is fairly well used in English to describe a Dutch sailing barge. The word appeared as a redlink in some Second World War articles, namely Operation Cycle and Operation Ariel, in which a fleet of Dutch boats helped to evacuate Allied troops across the Channel in 1940; this prompted me to find a couple of English references and start a stub article. There are also a fair number of mentions of armed schuyts being used as gunboats in the Napoleonic Wars (see "What links here"). The only caveat that I have with a merger, is that a couple of references mentioned that schuyts could be used for fishing, which one doesn't normally associate with a barge; but it seems likely that these boats were used for all sorts of purposes rather than just carrying cargo like a Thames barge. Alansplodge (talk) 14:43, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Thank you both!!! I would like to suggest the following: Alan moves his unique content in schuyt to Dutch barge, since the latter one exists much longer. That way Alan's contribution would still be under his name. He would turn schuyt into a redirect to Dutch barge. Next, if the consensus between you guys is that schuyt is better than Dutch barge, we would move the merged article to schuyt and the longer edit history travels with the article. Otherwise we keep things as is. Alan and Chris, is this a fair solution? gidonb (talk) 17:17, 14 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me. About the final name for the article I'm not sure. The term Dutch barge is widely used in UK and much better known than Schuyt. I've talked to the author of the "Buyer's Guide" who doesn't remember the term Schuyt - though he's invited me to look at his Dutch books on the subject (which he doesn't read!) Collin's online dictionary has it as a variant of Schuit which it simply defines as "a Dutch boat with a flat bottom". I think the uses can include carrying cargo or people or indeed fishing. The eel quay, on the Strand in London if I remember right, lasted for centuries and the Watergeuzen escaped from the Spanish through the shallow channels of the Rhine in the 17thC using similar boats. The photo on the Schuyt page is nice but I couldn't see any evidence in the book to link it with the term Schuyt. The heading reads "Ein Schip op een Zant, een Baken in Zee." No online translator will handle Zant (presumably a variant of Zand) but it's obviously Dutch and it underlines the fact that we're talking generically. Chris55 (talk) 19:57, 14 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with all the above. Perhaps we should keep the "Dutch barge" title but add "also known as a schuyt" or similar to the lead. As to the "schuyt" image, the accompanying translation of the text (which has been cropped out) includes the phrase "See what our neighbour in the Schuyts [is] about" and they both seemed to comply with the descriptions in the references, but I admit it was a bit of a punt. I will probably have time to do the merger in a couple of days, unless anybody else would like to have a go at it. Alansplodge (talk) 22:05, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Alansplodge: It looks like no-one else would like to have a go (not my area of expertise, before you check) ...! Klbrain (talk) 17:33, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Now done Klbrain, thanks for moving this forwards. Alansplodge (talk) 15:10, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well done Klbrain. I should have done something long ago. I've now had a more thorough search of Dutch Wikipedia and found articles on almost all the barge types redlined here, as well as others. On that basis I could do a short summary instead of the many non-existent links and perhaps it would be appropriate to have a section linking to the Dutch language articles given the topic. With Chrome it's now trivial to get passable translations. There isn't a single article though the best central article is nl:Bruine vloot. What do you think? Chris55 (talk) 21:28, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Credit goes to user:Alansplodge for getting the merge done - I only poked a stick. Alansplodge would be in a better position to comment on the Dutch article. Klbrain (talk) 22:18, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Chris55: Oh please, the Geuzen escaped in the 16th century, not the 17th. Also "zant" is nl:zand which translates to sand. Proper Dutch: "Een Schip op een nl:zandbank (English shoal) in zee." Peter Horn User talk 23:51, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Translations needed

Dutch barge#Types

Peter Horn User talk 19:55, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The articles nl:Katwijker (schip) and nl:Steilsteven do not exist in [Wikipedia] Peter Horn User talk 00:09, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Translations to/from Dutch or German seem to be a difficult issue in this whole field. See here. --91.34.43.213 (talk) 07:41, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]