Talk:Echo (Leona Lewis album)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Recorded tracks

Because we do not know which songs will make the album, perhaps this section should be deleted? The official tracklist is not too far away. Dynablaster (talk) 20:58, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree. They're mentioned in the prose of the article anyway and if they don't appear on the album they'll be removed from there. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 21:51, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

i also agree with this, the songs are all mentioned in prose under main body of text and therefore including them again as a seperate list seems a waste/pointless. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 00:34, 29 August 2009 (UTC))

As a matter of fact NOT all the songs are mentioned in the prose of the article. But if you would like to add them that would be great considering people have spent a lot of time finding and referencing these songs. I would also add that theses songs are songs that have been recorded by Lewis. They may not make the final tracklist but should remain somewhere in the article as evidence that the tracks do exist and where recorded as part of the Echo sessions. Beautiful&Dying (talk) 15:32, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Singles

Is is really necessary to have a seperate section for singles when there is already a small section for promotion? could the two not be incorporate until there is more singles releases and/or more promo info? (Lil-unique1 (talk) 00:15, 6 September 2009 (UTC))

I'm thinking that now details of "Happy" are known, they should be put into the production section, and in fact they already have been, with the rest of the info being put into the promotion section and remove the singles section. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 00:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Timbaland not on the album

Although we know Leona worked with him, she has confirmed that Timbaland is not appearing on the album. Posting here as I've removed all reference to Timbaland from the article, so at least we have it somewhere. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 12:50, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

So should Timbaland be mentioned in the article, considering that he hasn't contributed to the record? AnemoneProjectors (talk) 20:05, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

The album should briefly mention that recording sessions with Timbaland took place for this album but did not make the tracklisting. Leona's homepage should go into more depth about the subject. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 00:59, 26 September 2009 (UTC))

By Leona's homepage, do you mean her website? I don't think we need to expand on it other than say she worked with Timbaland but he didn't make the final cut, and I'd rather use as few primary sources as possible. If you mean the article Leona Lewis then I don't think it should be mentioned there at all. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 10:43, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Jan – Sep 2009

Do we have a source (or sources) to confirm the album was recorded within these dates please? AnemoneProjectors (talk) 01:11, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Erm i dont think we do although we know reports came in around February stating she was in the recording studios and it was then that the news of "dont let me down" appear on Chalice's website although this is difficult to prove (i found the info orginally). I think these recording dates are estimated because it was in September that Harvey Mason Jr posted on his website he was currently in the studio. It is generally also percieved that artists leave around 2-4 weeks for mastering and post-production which working back from a nov release would making recording around feb-sep/oct. but yes there is currently no source exactly documenting this. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 01:27, 2 October 2009 (UTC))

In that case I think we should just say 2009 for now because it seems a bit WP:OR-ish. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 09:13, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Leona quipped in The Big Issue (September) how she considers Echo to be her "baby", because the recording process took the same length of time it takes to have one!^[1][2]

That would suggest January - September 2009? (Lil-unique1 (talk) 12:55, 2 October 2009 (UTC))

Yes, she did say it took nine months! That's good, we can say that. It must have been January to September because she worked with people in September. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 13:12, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

The track listing has been released

What do we do about the songs that aren't on the album? Like Timbaland, they were part of the process. Should we leave it as it is and add details on the other songs that are on the album when we know them? AnemoneProjectors (talk) 16:33, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Track listing

Is it possible to get a space between the writers column and the producers column? It looks like KotechaMax is one word. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 13:30, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

im afraid there isnt as far as im aware of, although if you use a wikitable instead you can add parametres to limit column size. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 22:24, 20 October 2009 (UTC))

If we used a table, there would be a line between the cells, so there wouldn't be a problem. I never used to like this track listing tempalte but I kind of do now. Using a table is acceptable, but I do like the template. I'll ask elsewhere. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I came up with my own solution! AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:35, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Song Sources

I've been investigating the use of ASCAP and HfA to source recorded songs. I think songs listed in the main body of the article sourced from Harry Fox Songfile System should be removed. The main concern is that it is an example of WP:original research because the source does not specifically say when the song was recorded, when it was added to the publication records or even if it was recorded during the sessions for Echo. I classify it as original research because it is using the assumption that just because the producers/writers of the song "Save Myself" appeared on the other album's tracks it doesnt necessarily mean that this particular song was produced at the same time as others.(Lil-unique1 (talk) 23:18, 20 October 2009 (UTC))

Yes, I agree. There's always that chance they were recorded for Spirit. The information can be re-added if the song appears as a future B-side. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 10:01, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

"Shadows"

I'm not sure this song even deserves a mention as it was probably never even recorded by Leona. Thoughts? AnemoneProjectors (talk) 10:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

"Stone Hearts & Hand Grenades"

Amazon lists this as a 14th track but I'm pretty sure it's hidden in track 13, not that there's a source for that. I'm not sure how that works with track listings. Any ideas what to do? AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:30, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Or as Lil-unique1 put in the article, a bonus track for Amazon.com downloads! I guess we'll find out. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:17, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Format of release table

Hello, im want to remove the format section of the release history for the following reasons

1. the deluxe and standard editions are released simulatniously in every source i can search
2. in some of the sources it is not clear if the album is released digitally or as a CD

what do you think? (Lil-unique1 (talk) 17:43, 8 November 2009 (UTC))

I dunno. I think it should stay but maybe it just needs cleaning up? AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:11, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Deluxe edition live tracks

Someone on Twitter has told me the two live songs are "Brave" and "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face", but they're refusing to tell me how they know. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it here as I can't add it to the article. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 00:19, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Obviously, someone has added a source for this now. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 13:27, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

International reception

Given Leona Lewis's international popularity and success, it is important to hear from media sources outside of the United Kingdom. We should include reviews from Germany, the United States, France, etc. Dynablaster (talk) 18:36, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Some reviews from the US are included in the infobox. Can we include foreign language reviews? I haven't seen any but I'm unlikely to as I only search the internet in English. WP:ALBUM/REVSIT provides a list of Wikipedia-approved professional reviewers. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:16, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I see that page says "As the number of reviews should be limited, and as languages other than English are not understood by a large number of readers, reviews in languages other than English should generally not be included unless the language is especially relevant to the album in question." That answers that question. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:20, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

How about English language foreign reviews? If there are any! Dynablaster (talk) 22:09, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, if there are any. Would be good to get at least Canada and Australia. Canoe.ca doesn't appear to have reviewed it. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:16, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

The Times has awarded Echo 4 out of 5 stars.[3] Perhaps this review can replace one the lower quality papers? 21:18, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes I think so. Of course, the lower quality papers' reviews can mentioned in the actual recepton section of the article. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 21:59, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

My Hands / Final Fantasy

Just wanted to open dicussion about the use of the song "My Hands" as the sound track for the latest installment of the Final Fantasy Game series. Whilst this information is crucially notable and should definately be included i debate its location. How can it be used to promote the album if the game is not due out until November 2010? It seems misplaced in this section. Maybe it should be mentioned in the earlier sections which describe who wrote/produced the songs? (Lil-unique1 (talk) 22:02, 14 November 2009 (UTC))

It doesn't relate to either promotion or production, so if we want it included, it should be in a separate section. Though really I think it belongs in an article about the song. As we don't have one (and please don't create one just because I said that), it should be mentioned here. A different section, though. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:53, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Reception

After editing the article, can user Lil-unique1 please explain why, when Echo has received so many above average and positive reviews, the Reception section now paints a distinctly gloomy picture? Dynablaster (talk) 22:36, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Moving this text here for the time being: Dynablaster (talk) 22:42, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Andy Gill from The Independent wrote that "judging by this safe, careful follow-up to the multi-platinum Spirit, she's not taking any unnecessary chances that might prematurely derail that career. [...] However, while Leona's vocal tics are not yet familiar enough to be irritating, the calculated manner in which each song climbs to its climax tends to curdle its emotional authenticity.

Mike Diver from BBC Music gave a less favourable review, commenting: "Echo is undeniably a bolder affair than its predecessor, but still falls into the same trap of an over reliance on Lewis's voice [...] in favour of developed arrangements [and] its central protagonist simply doesn't stamp her authority on proceedings, [...] there's no character in her performances. Its songs are fine for what they are, and clear improvements on what came before. But [...] Lewis still lacks an album worthy of her international profile.

The critical reception section is supposed to give a balanced view of the album. Rather than moving the information here, the more sensible thing to do would have been to have expanded the reception section with further positive views so that the majority of the section was positive. Believe me i am a massive Leona Lewis fan the last thing i would want to to do put her down but the number of reviews in the critical reception section hardly paints a bleak picture. it is simply a case of saying the positive reviewers said "xyz" the negative reviews said "abc". The infobox gives the jist of how positive the reviews were and once the album is released we can put the statement in the introduction about how positive reviews were. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 23:01, 15 November 2009 (UTC))

The critical reception section is supposed to give a balanced view of the album. Yes indeed, but "balance" does not equate to a spectrum of opinion and allowing equal weight to both positive and negative reviews. In this instance, Echo has received mostly good reviews, so in order to craft a balanced Reception section, we are required to include mostly positive reviews. I am not wanting to censure harsh criticism or disapproval -- which is why I didn't discard this information completely -- but I do honestly believe the section gave an overly mediocre impression of what most critics say is a very good album. Let's try and improve the article keeping this in mind. Dynablaster (talk) 23:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

References

Certificates

I want to raise the question about Leona's UK certificate. Sources state in week 1 that she has sold 161,000 +. However according to BPI within less than a month she has more than trippled her first week sales figures? Im sorry as much of a leona fan that i am (i've got tickets to see her live) this doesn't seem to ring true. Also when Spirit went to platinum her website posted this information everywhere and it recieved much publicity. Her website mentions no certificates for the album and there appears to be very little media attention surrounding this. If an album did go double platinum in 3 weeks surely it should have a been a big deal to the media? (Lil-unique1 (talk) 16:03, 3 December 2009 (UTC))

I agree, but I believe the BPI certifications are for shipped copies, rather than sold copies. Record labels have to apply for a certification. Perhaps Syco overestimated how many copies the album would sell, and ship. Dt¹²⁸ let's talk 17:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

So in terms of certificates what does this mean? Does shipped refer to the number of units that the record label produced and sent out to retailers? If so then it is misleading. The article now appears to show that Leona Lewis has sold 600k copies of her album which makes her one of the most successful releases of this year. And as much as i want this to be true as a fan we have to be realistic about the achievements of an artist. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 18:56, 3 December 2009 (UTC))

Since the BPI is listing Echo at 2× Platinum then thats what we have to keep there for the time being. Dt¹²⁸ let's talk 17:43, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I Got U

I was wondering which title is correct? In the digital booklet it was written "I Got You" instead of "I Got U". Soulo 87 (talk) 05:28, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Who said it was called "I Got U"? It's never been called that before. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 16:13, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Someone has already fixed the tracklisting. Thank you Soulo 87 (talk) 17:23, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Personnel section

I`m gonna rate this article a stub, just for now, please someone add a Personnel section so it can be made into a B like deserves, just let me know when is done. Zidane tribal (talk) 01:52, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

This is definitely not a stub but as you don't feel it's B-class I've rated it C-class. I've been hoping to add a personnel section but haven't been able to since I'm not online much lately. I may work on it offline. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 14:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, than what do you say, we let it unassessed until so. Zidane tribal (talk) 18:31, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to leave it unassessed. It's definitely C-class at the moment. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:02, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I've now added the personnel section for the standard UK edition, but "Fly Here Now", "Let It Rain" and "You Don't Care" need to be added, also "Stone Hearts & Hand Grenades" if anyone has that information. I've done it the opposite way to Spirit (listed by form of participation rather than by person) as it makes the list shorter. I know that's not what WP:ALBUMS says we should do but it's what I've done now. I've also added the recording locations for the standard UK edition. This means the infobox needs to be updated, perhaps just a link to the recording locations section could be used? Feel free to clean up my list as you see fit. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 16:18, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Promotion

Can someone add this please, I don't have time. Thanks. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:00, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Stop Crying your heart out

I think it should be metioned that it charted at 26 I believe due to strong downloads from her album. Since on Alexandra's page it has done that for tracks that charted in the 100's. 90.205.34.89 (talk) 00:03, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

I didn't know it had charted, so yes I agree it should be mentioned. As long as it's well referenced. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:34, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh, it charted at 55, and at 41 in Ireland. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:36, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Yer i think it should be stated that it has charted in her discography. 80.5.210.187 (talk) 11:35, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Not in her discography because it wasn't a single, but any tracks that charted can be mentioned in this article. AnemoneProjectors 11:43, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Could i just say that i think there should be a section underneath Oasis' SCYHO section on their page for Leona's version as she has sung it several times live and it also charted well without being released physically. Plus, i think there should be a "Other CHarted Songs" section in her discography like loads of other singers do. Plus, their is none of this atm, yet there is a SCYHO link in Leona's box at the bottom of all her wiki pages (with albums, singles, featured singles etc.) yet the link only goes to a Oasis version page. So either create the two things i have said or delete that link.calvin999 13:54, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Why don't you be WP:BOLD and create the section yourself? --Lil-unique1 (talk) 13:56, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I could but i don't want to spend ages doing it for it to be taken down. Plus i did actually do a "Other Charted Songs" section on her disc. for SCYHO and it was removed.calvin999 20:31, 18 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calvin999 (talk • contribs)

and i have actually just made a Leona Lewis section on the Oasis SCYHO page. it will proably be removed though, god knows why?calvin999 21:06, 18 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calvin999 (talk • contribs)

Leona's version used to have its own section in the SCYHO article but there's hardly enough information for it to be worthy of a whole section. Maybe if it had been a single there would have been. Lil-unique, has consensus been reached about "other charted songs" in disocgraphies yet? AnemoneProjectors 21:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

There hasn't really been a formal consensus (as in its not been added/changed on the MOS:DISCOG page but virtually all of the editors have said that other charted songs should be included in discogs. --Lil-unique1 (talk) 21:19, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I still disagree with that because it's meant to be for releases, not album tracks or b-sides. Listing them is similar to including track listings. AnemoneProjectors 21:24, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, but i still believe that SCYHO for Leona is still significant for her, she has sang it several times and she has even discussed why she recorded it etc. Plus it charted very well without release, but hey it's not me who decides if something stays or goes. PLUS, Alexandra Burke has a "Other Charted Songs" section for The Silence, Cheryl Cole has one which has SEVEN songs in it from ONE album, Mariah Carey has one as well. I don't get why it is so forbidden for Leona to have one. calvin999 11:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calvin999 (talk • contribs)

She has sung "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" and "Whatever It Takes" lots of times too. It's not forbidden, there's just no consensus either way. I still don't think it should be included because these are not individual releases, and a discography is a list of releases. AnemoneProjectors 18:12, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

But Stop Crying Your Heart Out is more significant because it has charted well here. Actually, TFTEISYF was sung once in the UK and once in the USA. Whatever It Takes was sung once in Spain about 7 weeks ago. Plus, if the Discography is only for singles, why does Alexandra Burke, Beyonce, Mariah Carey and Cheryl Cole have Other Charted Songs sections? They are everything that u say shouldn't be there....calvin999 19:34, 19 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calvin999 (talk • contribs)

Because people added them, duh. I didn't put them there! I don't watch those articles. There isn't a consensus on "other charted songs" as Lil-unique has said (he brought it up recentlyon the discography guidelines page). Lewis has performed "The First Time..." a lot more than once. "Stop Crying..." isn't more significant just because it charted better. It's still not a single. AnemoneProjectors 20:19, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I said ONCE in UK and ONCE in USA. UK was on Diva's Live (and on tour) and USA was the Pre-Grammy Party. and for SCYHO, it is not recognised anywhere how well it has charted. What about a "Notable Songs" under the singles of Echo on the Echo page? Saying were it was performed and where it charted? It would be about 2 lines long, if that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calvin999 (talk • contribs) 23:51, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

But she has performed it more than twice. She performed both "The First Time..." and "Whatever It Takes" on her tour. That's another 20 live performances. Plus the Hackney gig... Yes I think its chart performance can be mentioned in this article. Lil-unique, is that acceptable? AnemoneProjectors 02:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I mean Live Televised Performances which more people see. Yes, a "Notable Songs" piece under the singles of Echo on the Echo page with SCYHO saying where it was performed which prompted it to chart well. calvin999 12:50, 20 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calvin999 (talk • contribs)

Radio1.gr

This source from radio1.gr keeps getting re-added but cannot be used, is not a reliable source. Dt¹²⁸ let's talk 21:38, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Why is it not reliable? Its a Radio 1 site —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.205.34.137 (talk) 16:50, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

It's a Greek radio station, it's not BBC Radio 1. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:09, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Deluxe edition

Does anyone know what happened to the "deluxe edition featuring two extra songs and a 32-page insert"? AnemoneProjectors (talk) 00:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Re-realse

there is set to be a rererlase with leona duetting with robbie for 2 songs, dotn know much else though90.205.34.190 (talk) 18:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I think it's a false rumour. Whoever first reported it said she would perform with Kings of Leon as well, but they have denied it. AnemoneProjectors (talk) 18:58, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Third Single: It might be "Outta My Head" after all...

This Italian media website: [4] is reporting that Leona Lewis has a video coming out for upcoming single: "Outta My Head". The translation reads The artist has released two singles: "Love is your color" and "Outta My Head." Collaboration with Jennifer Hudson (the two pop stars have recorded with the song "Love Is Your Colour", a track that will be part of the soundtrack for the film "Sex and the City 2") to success in network with video of the new single "Outta My Head."

Additionally this source [5] from a German media source points to a June re-release for the album.

This is defo one to watch. I guess we should wait and see if other sources can confirm it too... Lil-unique1 (talk) 03:48, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Leona Co-Produced I Got You?

Max Martins songwriting and production list says that he and Leona co-produced I Got You together. Should this be added to the I Got YOu production column in the tracklisting?calvin999 23:56, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

No, because it's not true. AnemoneProjectors 01:36, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

He didn't even produce "I Got You" - Arnthor Birgisson did. He procuced "Outta My Head" with Shellback. AnemoneProjectors 01:42, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

So Max Martins co-production page is wrong then. shouldn't that be ammended? calvin999 12:51, 20 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calvin999 (talk • contribs)

I changed it yesterday to say he produced "Outta My Head" and not "I Got You". I saw you twice change articles based on errors in other articles (the other was to do with Alexandra Burke). You should verify the facts first as Wikipedia can contain errors. AnemoneProjectors 20:03, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

US charting.

After only 4 weeks of US release, it feel from 75 in its third week to 117 in its fourth. Aaron • ^{You Da One} 23:12, 26 April 2012 (UTC)