Talk:Eiður Guðjohnsen

this stuff is wrong

His real name is Eiður Smári Guðjónsson, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.149.98.150 (talk) 18:31, 23 October 2011 (UTC) the fact box which states how many games gudjohnsen has played and how many goals hes scored is simply wrong. I have tried to change it but its always changed back. Go to espnsoccernet.com to find proof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssagustsson (talk • contribs) 20:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree. In the text it says he scored 12 goals in 2006-07 season alone for Barcelona. While his total goals for Barcelona in 3 years shows to be 10. Also check on his transfer fees which says 12 million euros plus add-ons for his transfer from Chelsea to Barcelona. Because what I remember reading was 5 million pounds in an article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Insane28 (talk • contribs) 04:31, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Eiður Guðjohnsen or Eidur Gudjohnsen?

The title suggests Eiður Guðjohnsen, but the infobox and start of article say Eidur Gudjohnsen, which is correct? (If I get no response I will go ahead and change Eidur > Eiður and Gudjohnsen > Guðjohnsen throughout the article, as that seems more likely to be true.) - MTC 18:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

According to The National Register of Persons in Iceland his name is Eiður Smári Guðjohnsen, so Eiður Guðjohnsen is correct. - gumol 00:45, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've changed the name in most of the article, except for the "known in English as Eidur Gudjohnsen", for what should be obvious reasons. I've also left Gudjohnsen in the references as they are the actual names of the news articles. - MTC 06:28, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

"known in English as Eidur Gudjohnsen" was deleted without any explanation whatsoever (either rational or otherwise), so I'm going to add it back in as it seems a good idea to have the article make sense (like why the links call him Gudjohnsen and not Guðjohnsen). Isaiah 17:36, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

True name Gudjohnsen.Look this photo. [[1]]--78.173.153.203 (talk) 23:59, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

At the English language Wikipedia the title should be Eidur Gudjohnsen, according Wikipedia guidelines. Dr. D.E. Mophon (talk) 11:01, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Goal vs Chivas

He gained famed because of the impressive goal he scored? Come on, I was there and it was nothing impressive. What fame did he gain in the US? Only the people who knew who he was beforehand still know who he is.

If the only info that was needed was he is an Icelandic football player, then there would be no purpose of Wikipedia. Kingjeff 20:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Why is everyone so nasty to Eiður? First off, a yank saying there wasn't anything impressive of the goal? Well, unless there are people just tackling each other on the field or fighting or kicking the ball from one end of the field to the other, I can't see how the beautiful game of football can be appealing or impressive to an american. And you´re wrong about your last comment, I have met quite a few people from Europe who reference Eiður Guðjohnsen from Barcelona when I tell them I am Icelandic. --Girdi 18:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

This article is headless!

Eidur Gudjohnsen has not played six years for Barcelona, scoring much goals, as it is written in the right colon. This must be fixed! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.108.196.43 (talk) 13:09, 5 May 2007 (UTC).

Attention

This is an english encyclopaedia... get rid of that icelandic letters, this is ENGLISH, not ICELANDIC. STOP being PEDANTIC.

I agree. This should be similar to articles about Russian people. So the first lines in this article should be: Eidur Smari Gudjohnsen (Icelandic: Eiður Smári Guðjohnsen) (born September 15, 1978 in Reykjavík) is an Icelandic football player who is a striker with FC Barcelona...

I've come around on this subject and agree with those above who suggested the change from Icelandic to English. If there is no objection here, I will change the article to read Gudjohnsen instead of Guðjohnsen. I will make this change in 24 hours. Isaiah 18:05, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I object. All other articles about footballers with latin alphabet foreign letters in their name keep them in the title and article, why should Eiður Guðjohnsen be any different? This is not comparable with Russian people as Russian is written in a different alphabet to English and Icelandic. A more valid comparison is with Petr Čech, which keeps the diacritic everywhere in the article except for references whose titles drop it (despite it being much harder to type on an English keyboard than ð and á). - MTC 18:31, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Then I guess on the Icelandic wikipedia we should change the English names to Icelandic letters? How would you feel if we wrote Drottning Elísabet 2. instead of Queen Elizabeth II, or Mikeal Djórdan instead of Michael Jordan? I agree with everything MTC was saying, if Icelandic was written in a different alphabet, then of course it would make sense for an English equivelent. But we use the same latin alphabet as English, so it should not be any different in the English article. In the Icelandic wikipedia we translate cyrillic to Icelandic letters, as I have done many times as I am responsible for many of the Kazakh related articles there, but for articles about people which are of people from languages which use the latin alphabet we don't change their names. Afterall even that is the ICELANDIC wikipedia not the ENGLISH one. --Girdi 18:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, that was an objection. I object! --Girdi 18:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The article about Queen Elizabeth II on icelandic wikipedia is named "Elísabet 2. Bretadrottning". I don't know if any wikipedia rules or guide lines say any thing about this but i think it must be normal that an article about a person on wikipedia has the same name and same language adaptation as it usually appears in written media (such as newspapers) in that language. In icelandic written media queen elizabeth is refered to as Elísabet drottning, Elísabet Englandsdrotting or Elísabet Bretadrottning and Micheal Jordan is referred to as Micheal Jordan. In media written in english Eiður Smári Guðjónssen is refered to as Eidur Gudjonssen or Eidur Smari Gudjonssen. Therefor in Icelandic wikipedia it must be considered correct to name the articles "Elísabet 2. Bretadrottning" and "Micheal Jordan" on icelandic wikipedia and in english wikipedia "Eidur Gudjonssen". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.149.115.203 (talk) 06:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

• True name Gudjohnsen.Look this photo.

[[2]]--78.173.153.203 (talk) 23:59, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

• Gudjohnsen is true.Icelandic characters not true.--78.173.144.172 (talk) 01:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

what silly "proofs". His name written by Icelandic orthography is the only correct one. --Añtó| Àntó (talk) 08:15, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

milky-bar kid?

whats this milky-bar kid thing about? sum1 kno? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.168.199.117 (talk) 16:45, 16 July 2009 (UTC) oh ok that blond cowboy brat who says the choclate bars are on top of him.

Surname

Shouldn't the notice at the top of the page about Gudjohnsen not being a surname be removed as it is obviously incorrect? Eidur has the same last name as his father, so it is obviously not a patronym. 81.231.155.144 (talk) 12:25, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Guðjohnsen is a family name, yes. Haukur (talk) 09:18, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Part of the notice (or the format of it) was correct and should be mentioned in my opinion (the "This person is properly referred to as Eiður" bit). He's never referred to in his home country as only Guðjohnsen, when spoken to he's probably called "Eiður" and when the media talk about him he's usually called "Eiður Smári" or occasionally "Eiður Smári Guðjohnsen" (the same way a person with a patronym, example Gylfi Þór Sigurðsson, is referred to as "Gylfi" when spoken to and most often "Gylfi Þór" by the media and occasionally "Gylfi Þór Sigurðsson"). Or is that too much on the English wiki? finval (talk) 01:45, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved Mike Cline (talk) 20:29, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

---

• Eiður Guðjohnsen → Eidur Gudjohnsen

– Per common guidelines at Wikipedia (WP:TITLE, WP:OFFICIALNAMES, WP:MOSBIO, etc. etc.): "use the most common form of the name used in reliable sources in English". He is known internationally and officialy by his club as Eidur Gudjohnsen. Also, the Icelandic letters are not readable by most international and English people. Dr. D.E. Mophon (talk) 11:11, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

• Support. Of the 4,310 Google News results for "Eidur Gudjohnsen" football, two use Icelandic letters. The native form of his "full name" would still be given boldface in the opening after the move, per WP:FULLNAME. Kauffner (talk) 12:58, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose - is today de-icelandise WP day :) I would actually oppose this more than the one to de-ð the Prime Minister, since there are no reliable sources for sports. Respected coworker Kauffner (above) can reasonably quote the Economist against Britannica for spelling of the Prime Minister, but sports journalists are not reliable sources on spelling of foreign names. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:00, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Suggest we freeze this RM due to lack of reliable sources and concentrate on RM re Iceland's Prime Minister Talk:Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir → Johanna Sigurdardottir, if the issue is removal of Icelandic eth and thorn from en.wp. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:03, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean lack of reliable sources? The official website of the football club, he is working for, names him with his Latinized name: Gudjohnsen, Eidur Smari.[3] This makes sense because he is working in an international environment, and most people outside Iceland can of course not read those Icelandic letters. Dr. D.E. Mophon (talk) 15:39, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi. I mean per WP:RS that wheras http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1511694/Johanna-Sigurdardottir has an article "Sigurðardóttir worked as a flight attendant for Loftleiðir Icelandic Airlines from 1962 to 1971," which is a reliable source, Britannica has no article on this footballer. The website of a football club is not a reliable source on orthography by definition. Sports sources are not reliable for spelling of "foreign" names, we've been over this again and again on WP. If a case is to be made for removal of Icelandic letters from en.WP, it should be made on firm ground near the Prime Minister not the sloppy mess of Sports sources. ::::As for Europeans, it appears that most Europeans outside Iceland can read ð, see the interwikis. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:38, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose because of scholarly accuracy. There's already a redirect for the non-scholarly spelling of convenience Eidur Gudjohnsen. Doremo (talk) 19:36, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose - Both accuracy and redirects are cheap. I really, really don't like the recent attempts by some editors to try and purge unfamiliar characters and diacritics from article titles. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:30, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support - Per nomination. Kingjeff (talk) 23:54, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose; stick to the more accurate name. This is supposed to be an encyclopædia. Of course we can have a redirect from the latinised form. bobrayner (talk) 07:37, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose per not using WP:COMMONNAME as an appeal to popularity. The current title is most accurate. As bobrayner says, this is an encyclopaedia, not a football magazine, and we should aspire to good scholarly practice. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 23:24, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

• Reply - But for article titles we do consider popularity and may forego scholarly accuracy. In WP:CRITERIA you can read this: "The choice of article titles should put the interests of readers before those of editors, and those of a general audience before those of specialists.". It is not in the interest of the readers/general audience for this article to retain a native spelling which is difficult to read and has not entered English-language usage. That supports the proposed move. Editors who vote "this is an encyclopedia" want to consider only the "precision" criterium and do not weigh the other four criteria. We are supposed to chose a name that best satisfies all five criteria and "precision" is only one of them. MakeSense64 (talk) 10:54, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

• Comment - Virtually all English language sources write his name Eidur Gudjohnsen. Even Icelandic sources have adopted the anglicised spelling of his name in their English language publications, here is an article about him in IcelandReview: [4]. And this seems to be his official Twitter account [5]. This supports the move to anglicized title per WP:UE. The anglicized name is more recognizable and natural for an English language reader who is familiar with the topic (~ football), especially since he seems to have played for British teams most of his career. And it is precise enough to identify the topic. So the requested move also satisfies our main criteria for naming articles WP:NAMINGCRITERIA. MakeSense64 (talk) 06:37, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose -- The inability of many people to type the letter for dh is no reason for changing the correct spelling. The existence of redirect should mean that editors are not inconvenienced. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:01, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
• Comment. Can we think of this holistically for a second, instead of just rigidly quoting guidelines? I think the current title is actually educational. Someone typing the name without diacritics into the search bar will end up here, and find that Icelandic names involve characters not used in English. The title would cause a problem if it was different enough from the English alternative to cause difficulty reading it, but it isn't. It isn't confusing at all, and actually contributes to the educational capacity of the encyclopaedia. Changing it doesn't improve anything. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 11:12, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

• I endorse this comment. This is Wikipedia, not an issue of [Four Four Two]] magazine. English Wikipedia is an encyclopedia in English, not one about and reinforcing the anglophone world's biases. (I notice that, in the larger debate, the 'fewer diacritics' faction keep avoiding questions about more familiar English variants, such as accents and cedillas in French. Icelandic and Slavic names are popular targets.) AlexTiefling (talk) 11:18, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
• Wiki articles and their titles should record the usage of the secondary English language sources and inform the reader as to what such usage is. They are not supposed to be an assault on the English language and "the anglophone world's biases". The title should be recognizable to as many readers as possible to give them a cue that this is the article they are looking for when it comes up on a list, such as a Google result list. The subject's full name, special characters and all, can be given boldface in the opening, per WP:FULLNAME. So the information is still be available to those who are interested either way. The title should also tell the reader the subject's common name, how he or she is normally referred to in the English-speaking world. Far more readers want to know about this than are interested in obscure letters. Kauffner (talk) 11:47, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

(after ec) Actually, I think we are supposed to counter systemic bias. But I don't regard spelling people's names correctly as an assault on the English language, and I reject the divisive approach that claims that it is. I strongly agree with you that 'Wiki articles and their titles should record the usage of the secondary English language sources and inform the reader as to what such usage is'. I just feel that the title should (where feasible) reflect the subject's own usage, or relevant academic/intellectual usage. We have redirects to make navigation easier, so no-one should be at a disadvantage for not being able to type eth (or whatever). And the lede can give anglicised spellings. (Personal anecdote: a friend of mine whose surname contained an idiosyncratic Scandinavian character, when living in England, used to be addressed by officialdom as though that letter were replaced by a similar-looking (but not similar-sounding) English one. She said to me: "I have two names now. I have to get used to answering to this English thing, even though it isn't really my name." AlexTiefling (talk) 12:03, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Academic/intellectual usage is often non-existent for sports figures. As for his own usage, I have cited his Twitter account in my earlier comment, and he uses the anglicized spelling of his name. MakeSense64 (talk) 12:30, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

• Reply - @Basalisk. "Educational" is not one of the criteria we are supposed to consider for article titles, but your comment is interesting nevertheless. First of all, the native Icelandic spelling of his name will always come first in the lede, regardless at what title his article is kept. So a reader will be equally able to learn about this special character if the article is kept at Eidur Gudjohnsen. But it will actually be more educational if he is at Eidur Gudjohnsen, here is why: there are also people who come to this page by clicking on a (wiki)link in another article. Right now they see only the native spelling of his name and there is nothing in the lede or article telling him how it is spelled in English. Has to read all the way down to the references to discover that it is written "Eidur Gudjohnsen" in English sources. With the suggested move the reader will still learn about this special character AND he will also learn that it is commonly transcribed as "d" in English sources. Showing more different spellings in the article will always be more educational than showing just one. Right now it looks like English spelling has been banned from this article. MakeSense64 (talk) 11:58, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

While I disagree that using the anglicised spelling for the title is more educational, I agree that we need to avoid banning that spelling altogether. If there are reliable English sources for the anglicised name, then it needs to be mentioned prominently in the lede. AlexTiefling (talk) 12:03, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

You make a good point MS, I hadn't thought of that. However, I still think the best option is to keep the current title and include the English transcription in the lede rather than the other way around. I think that option is most informative and most accurate. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 12:33, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

We will always be maximum "educational" by including all information we can reliably source, and that includes all significant alternative spellings for which we have sources. That's why "educational" is not a criterium for deciding on the title. "Educational" will take care of itself if we follow the other policies and guidelines. Normally the title of an article "educates" the reader on what is currently (since it can change) the most commonly used name in English-language usage, that can be a native or an anglicized name depending on our sources. Kauffner is right that putting native spelling in the title (when that spelling is rarely used in English language) becomes like an attempt to push more Icelandic spelling into English-language usage. I doubt that WP wants to lend itself for that purpose. WP tries to be as spelling-neutral as possible afaik. MakeSense64 (talk) 12:45, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

• Support, as this is the English language Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 19:19, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose per accuracy. There can be a redirect in place for those who don't know diacritics. -DJSasso (talk) 19:21, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Question. - And where is the policy or guideline that asks us for "accuracy" in article titles? We do not have it. What we have is a requirement for titles to be "precise enough to identify the topic", and "Eidur Gudjohnsen" is precise enough to identify him. Then we are also supposed to weigh recognizability and naturalness (for an English language reader), which clearly favor the English spelling of his name. MakeSense64 (talk) 05:54, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

• Support per common English spelling, usage, and sources. There can be a redirect for those who don't know the English alphabet. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:52, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose per Peterkingiron, DJSasso, Basalisk, et al. Removing diacritics from a foreign name does not make it an English name. "Eiður" is going to be foreign for any English speaker even if it is erroneously/lazily spelt as "Eidur". ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 04:56, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. Our current practice is to retain the eth (and this is supported by The Chicago Manual of Style and by examples in Britannica). We should be consistent. Prolog (talk) 18:33, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Question. - Consistent with what? Consistent with The Chicago Manual of Style or consistent with wikipedia's own criteria? WP:CRITERIA. I have nothing against using native spelling for Icelandic players who always played for Icelandic clubs. But Gudjohnsen has played in Britain most of his career, so there is ample usage in English-language sources. Per WP:ON: "English usage overrides usage in other languages, so other languages would chiefly become relevant if the topic had never been described or discussed in English prior to the writing of the Wikipedia article". It will be hard to make the case that Gudjohnsen has never been described in English. Do you agree that WP:ON asks us to be consistent "with usage in reliable English-language sources."? MakeSense64 (talk) 05:21, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Family Name

I know there has been a lot of discussion about this. And although I have no problem with the use of Icelandic letters, I do think the current spelling used in this particular case here of this family name is incorrect. This is because the name Gudjohnsen is clearly not of Icelandic origin. There are two reasons that reveal the foreign origin. Firstly the name ends on -sen, which is native to Danes and Norwegians. If it would be of true Icelandic origin it would have been spelled Guðjonsson. Secondly, if the family would have been 100% Icelandic, Eiđur's last name would not have been Gudjohnsen but Arnórsson. Similarly his children would have been called Eiðursson. This all clearly reveals the family has a non-Icelandic ancestor and the correct spelling should be Eiður Smári Gudjohnsen. Tvx1 (talk) 23:14, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

I woud like to add to this that the difference between d and ð is not solely a cosmetic thing. These are two related yet different letters an writing Gudjohnsen provokes a different pronunciation than Guðjohnsen. Therefore it's important that we get the spelling right. Tvx1 (talk) 17:03, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

The Icelandic family name "Guðjohnsen" was created by an Icelander, whose patronymic was "Guðjónsson", and despite the obvious Danish influence, it was created by an Icelander and utilizes the Icelandic letter "ð", which is roughly pronounced the same as the "th" in "the". A little history lesson: In the late 1800's, early 1900's the creation of family names was legal in Iceland. Many Icelandic surnames from that time exist, although the creation of a new family name has been banned for nearly a century now, it's only legal to inherit it. Therefore you can't argue that an Icelander has foreign ancestors just because he has a family name, it depends on what that family name is. The family name Urbancic, for example, has been in Iceland since Word War II, and while all carrying the name now are Icelandic most would correctly guess that it isn't an originally Icelandic name, as opposed to Laxness, for example.Dalitidlamadur (talk) 21:10, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2014

http://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/article/u21s-bolton-1-2-middlesbrough-2117963.aspx played for Bolton reserves against Middlesbrough on 01 December 2014. 78.148.233.14 (talk) 22:22, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

•  Not done - Not notable, we don't detail every little reserve and training match a player participates in. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 22:41, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

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