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GA Review

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Reviewer: Lampman (talk · contribs) 00:10, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure whats happened to this review, it seem to have stalled ? Jim Sweeney (talk) 16:10, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry if I have taken too long; I was under the impression, from talk page discussion, that there was no hurry. If you need something to work with, here's a start: cambridgeshirehistory.com is under no circumstances a reliable source – it is a website published by an anonymous. Seeing that the bibliography contains sources like the VCH and other RSs, I don't think there is any excuse for relying so heavily on this for the history. Lampman (talk) 07:45, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Some books that might cover this:

  • Carpenter, David (2003). The Struggle for Mastery: Britain, 1066-1284. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195220005.
  • Clanchy, M. T. (1998). England and its rulers, 1066-1272. Oxford: Blackwell. ISBN 0-631-20557-8.
  • Powicke, F. M. (1947). King Henry III and the Lord Edward: The Community of the Realm in the Thirteenth Century. Oxford: Clarendon Press.
  • Maddicott, John (1994). Simon de Montfort. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521374936.
  • Prestwich, Michael (1997). Edward I (updated ed.). New Haven: Yale University Press. ISBN 0300072090.
  • Prestwich, Michael (2007). Plantagenet England: 1225-1360 (new ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0198228449.
  • Sadler, John (2008). The Second Barons' War: Simon de Motfort and the Battles of Lewes and Evesham. Barnsley: Pen & Sword Military. ISBN 1844158314.

Just as a suggestion, obviously I don't mean you have to incorporate all of this. Lampman (talk) 08:39, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Another thing: I think the lead, at five paragraphs, is too long even for an article this size. Some details could be cut, but furthermore, its structure is a bit confused. It seems to me like the following:

Location (which is fine) - History, transportation - Geography, economy (fine) - Transportation (which we've already done in part 2) - History (which we've already done), education, misc.

Instead, how about a simpler structure, like:

Location - History - Geography, economy - Transportation, education, misc.

Just a suggestion, but I'm sure if you read Wikipedia:Lead#Length, you'll agree this one is a bit too long. Lampman (talk) 08:03, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am not crazy about the heading "Saxon roots", seeing how this section covers a 1000-year period from the 7th to the 17th century. I'd go for something more boring, like "Medieval and early modern something, something..." Lampman (talk) 08:08, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Great. Thank you. I will get on to the above asap. In the meantime, sorry if there was confusion. My "take your time" was meant to imply no need to review immediately :( but I was getting slightly nervous after a week as my sources need to go back to the library in a week.
I see, I'll try to get through it as quickly as possible then. Lampman (talk) 14:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Responses

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Striking above as items cleared

Detailed review

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Ok, here are my objections. Nothing major, all in all well written and exceptionally well researched.

  • "the 1066 survey" – what is this; was there really a survey in 1066 already, or is it a confusion with Domesday? If there was one, it probably shouldn't say "the 1066 survey", as if it's been mentioned before, but rather "by the time of a 1066 survey" or something like that. Agreed changed to "... by the time of the Domesday survey (1066)" --Senra (Talk) 11:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
But surely Domesday was in 1086? Lampman (talk) 20:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • William the Conqueror is occasionally referred to as that, and occasionally as "William I". I think it would be better to be consistent and call him William the Conqueror – the name under which he is best known, and the title of the article. Agreed changed --Senra (Talk) 11:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • William Wolsey & Robert Pygot – some brief context would be good here, I take it this was during Mary's counter-reformation?
  • Stet as I need to work on this. I looked at Counter-Reformation which looks right in this context but as I cannot use Wikipedia as a source am researching sources --Senra (Talk) 11:40, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have access to Foxe (1838) pp. ii–iii who does not use the term counter-reformation. However, he does describe the Papacy's first effective efforts to re-establish its influence in England following the ascendancy of Mary to the throne. Counter-reformation is probably a modern term. Based on Foxe, I prepended "Following the ascendancy of Mary I of England to the throne in 1553, the Papacy made its first effective efforts to enforce the Pope Paul III initiated Catholic reforms in England.[29] During this time, which became known as the counter-reformation, ..." --Senra (Talk) 12:24, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think a better link would be Marian Persecutions, then you wouldn't need a ref. Lampman (talk) 20:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed done --Senra (Talk) 22:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree; here's a source you could use for the 1500 date:
Agreed done ""Alcock, John". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online ed.). Oxford University Press. doi:10.1093/ref:odnb/289. (Subscription or UK public library membership required.)" --Senra (Talk) 22:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Ely is the nearest cathedral city to Cambridge, which lies within the same diocese but does not have its own cathedral." – this sentence confuses me a bit. I think it's the "but", since there's really no contradiction between the two propositions: isn't it exactly because it doesn't have its own cathedral that it lies within the diocese of Ely? (I suppose Cambridge is a bit unusual, in that it is a city but not a diocese?) Anyway, I think this could be rewritten a bit clearer. Agreed though unsure exactly how to reword this. For now, I have removed "... but does not have its own cathedral" as confusing and (marginally?) redundant --Senra (Talk) 11:44, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine. Lampman (talk) 20:43, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's really it. The lead is a lot clearer now, and the use of reliable sources much better. If these issues can be resolved, it should be set to go. Lampman (talk) 10:58, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, that should be it! Lovely article, and lovely place; I've been there a few times (once after getting on the wrong train from Cambridge to London, but that's another story). Good luck if you chose to take it further! Lampman (talk) 23:44, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. Your comments have been very much appreciated. Despite the article, Ely has modernised a lot! We now have a Starbucks, Costa and Caffè Nero as well as a least one good pub :) Thank you again for the promotion --Senra (Talk) 00:30, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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