Talk:False or misleading statements by Donald Trump

Less character analysis, more verified instances of falsehoods and obviously misleading claims

This article contains numerous opinion-based character judgments which are not fitting for an encyclopedic entry on such a specific topic. If such information is truly necessary, it should be moved to a section reserved for that purpose, leaving only instances of substantiated lies and mendacity in the existing sections. 152.117.79.55 (talk) 17:40, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

It's difficult to respond to a general grievance. Please detail some of the specific passages that you find problematic. 331dot (talk) 18:28, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Opinions and character analyses are just as legitimate content as straight facts. Just as we are not supposed to isolate criticism into its own section, we should not isolate opinions and analyses into one section. It's best to mix content and place things where they logically fit together. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 20:06, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I note that this issue is mostly resolved and offer the following suggestions. Paragraph 5, under "Use of repetition" (beginning with "The Washington Post "), alludes to the Post's "14 statements" that were disinformation. These are notably missing.

Generally speaking, the character analyses mentioned by the anonymous user above add little to the discussion. The only actual comparison between Trump and other presidents is a 2017 NYT article by Sheryl Stolberg, which, after mentioning some other lies by past presidents, concludes that Trump had taken lying to "an entirely new level" and "Trump is trafficking in hyperbole, distortion and fabrication on practically a daily basis." Nowhere is an unopinionated, and substantiated, comparison of Trump to other presidents. I would agree with the assessment that such conclusions, especially when their premises are omitted, are not appropriate for this entry.

Additionally, most of said character analyses have a strong Left bias, giving this article as a whole a Left skew. It'd be nice to see some more objective statements on Trump's veracity, and additional evidence/opinions from sources with a Right bias. LetsAddSomeContext (talk) 21:05, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

You will need to explain how this is a left bias. As is well documented, he spreads disinformation on a constant basis. O3000, Ret. (talk) 21:33, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Are you able to explain how this article does not contain a left-bias? The previous poster made a lot of solid points that you disregarded, then basically responded saying “prove it”.

Here’s proof of left-bias:

Adolf Hitler’s page isn’t nearly as damning or colorful as Donald Trump’s. Why?

All of the Donald Trump articles are written as if they were authored by a CNN journalist. There’s no place for that in an encyclopedic entry. Vklemenz (talk) 23:25, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Adolf Hitler’s page isn’t nearly as damning or colorful as Donald Trump’s.

Lol. Lmao, even. — Czello ^(music) 23:28, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

That's called proving a negative, and is a logical fallacy. It is not incorrect to ask for proof of left wing bias when it was not presented in the first place. 129.145.50.123 (talk) 18:03, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

If you want a "Right" viewpoint, I highly recommend Liz Cheney's book, Oath and Honor. It is FULL of accounts of tRump's lack of "truthiness", all of which are well-documented by many persons WHO WERE IN TRUMP'S EMPLOY DURING HIS PRESIDENCY. The book is extremely well-written and well-documented. Whether one agrees with Cheney's well-right-of-center views on policy, she is a great source of tRump and rePUBICan sins of January 6, 2021. You needn't read the entire book -- Chapter 46, alone, ought to be sufficient for anyone who is not certifiably insane and not an idiot. 47.155.230.74 (talk) 19:45, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Why is there a wikipedia page for this?

I see no need for a wikipedia page specifically for trump, or at all. Politicans lie. And if it is decided we need one specifically for trump, why not put one wikipedia page, showing the lies all politicans made?5.28.182.34 (talk) 12:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Per the 4th sentence, Commentators and fact-checkers have described the scale of Trump's mendacity as "unprecedented" in American politics. That's why the article exists. — Czello ^(music) 12:44, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Still, we have this value already:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric_of_Donald_Trump

We have way too many values for the same topic, this could have been discussed or added to the link I provided.

This still does not explain why it needs a seperate value, and the link seems written in a more wikipedian style.

Also, saying "unprecetened" means it happens with everybody, and again, I don"t why we need another wikipedia value. 5.28.180.54 (talk) 02:43, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

I suspect that you do not understand what the English language word "value" means, and also do not understand Wikipedia's policies and guidelines about whether or not a separate article should exist about any given topic. Cullen328 (talk) 02:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps, you may provide the guidelines stating why an additional value besides "Trumps Rhetoric" is required.

Value is the direct translation from my language that is correct.

But, I could see value if the goal is to open the topic of lying in politics for the eyes of the public. Trump`s lying is in comparison to others, that is the only way to measure this.

But at the moment, this is not the case, and I don`t see a wikipedia value for any president, or at all on the topic of lying. Maybe I missed it. 5.28.180.54 (talk) 02:57, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

"Additional Value" = page.

"Value" = Value, as per context.

I believe you understood what I meant rather well, despite my mistake, which will be corrected. 5.28.180.54 (talk) 03:06, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

edit conflict

"Lying" and "rhetoric" are two related, but different, topics covered in different ways by reliable sources. Lying is one specific aspect of his rhetoric, and no one even comes close when it comes to lying. "Unprecedented" does not mean "everybody". It means the opposite. It means he is different than everybody else, even than other prolific liars. He sets new records for lying. Fact-checkers have never encountered a public official who lies more. They even had to create a whole new category of liars called the "Bottomless Pinocchio" just for him. Who keeps telling the same lie when it has been exposed and debunked? Trump does it all the time. He also makes use of the Big lie propaganda technique, where he knowingly repeats a huge lie, especially about the election.

You really should read the article and check the sources before commenting. Your ignorance of the topic is showing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "value" in this context. If you mean "article", this subject is so notable and large that it deserves its own article. Please speak normal English. What you write is a mess. If you're not a native English speaker, try using Google Translate. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 03:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Proposal: speedy shutdown of sections like the one above

How many times must we have the same discussions here? I have already crafted an edit notice that will display when a user attempts to start a new thread, asking them not to if they intend to ask "why doed this excist" unless and until they ahve read the deletion discussions and prior threads in the archives, and are able to advance a line of argument not already refuted again and again. If they fail to do so, I propose that such threads not be replied to and instead be either speedily closed or removed entirely, whichever. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 20:58, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

It hadn't occurred to me that removing obvious sealioning is something we needed to discuss, I've just been doing it, per WP:NOTFORUM. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 21:51, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

deciding which falsehoods to include

I tried to see whether there was any consensus about this in an archived discussion, but failed to find it (perhaps because I used the wrong search terms, perhaps because there's never been any overarching rule, only case-by-case decisions).

I'm asking because of a recent falsehood, a story in which Trump said "I know Willie Brown very well. In fact, I went down in a helicopter with him. ... he told me terrible things about [Kamala Harris] … he was not a fan of hers, at that point.” Brown denied ever having been in a helicopter with Trump and is a Harris supporter. It turned out that Nate Holden, another Black man, had been with Trump in a helicopter that made an emergency landing [1], who also hadn't bashed Harris. Trump has doubled down, claiming that he has “logs, maintenance records, and witnesses” to confirm his story, and he threatened to sue the NYT for their reporting about it [2]. I think this false story is noteworthy in that he confused two Black men who have little in common (either physically or in terms of their careers), used it to bash his political opponent, doubled down after being corrected, and threatened to sue. But Trump also lies a great deal, and perhaps this isn't worth adding.

Is there some rubric that people use to decide which lies to include? FactOrOpinion (talk) 23:03, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Trump is doubling down on this one [3]. Brown insists he was not there, and would not have said "terrible things" about Harris had he been there, and also the entire incident seems to predate their relationship anyway. Nate Holden has been quoted in a number of sources as being the actual black person that was on that helicopter, and has joked with the press that Trump can't tell black people from one another [4].Seems like it is maybe worth a mention. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 18:53, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2024 use tweet ref-name not abuse dummy ref

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|ref = {{dummy reference|1}}

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|ref-name = TweetrealDonaldTrump_2

This actually shows the clickable ref with the URL and is the proper way to avoid cite errors with multiple tweets. 142.113.140.146 (talk) 11:55, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done — BerryForPerpetuity (talk) 12:22, 16 August 2024 (UTC)