Talk:Free territory
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Requested move 25 July 2022
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Moved to Free territory. czar 02:43, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Free Territory (disambiguation) → Free Territory – The original title for the article about the Makhnovshchina, created in 2006 by a now-banned user, was recently discovered to be erroneous after research found no mention of a "Free Territory" in any sources about it. Substantial citogenesis was caused by this, with hundreds of other Wikipedia articles linking to a "Free Territory", but I have since corrected these errors.
Given that the term "Free Territory" being applied to the Makhnovshchina is now known to have been erroneous, I think that this disambiguation page should now be the rightful holder of the "Free Territory" title. (Whether or not the Makhnovshchina should still be included in the DAB page, as substantial citogenesis has now linked the two names, would be subject to a different discussion.) Grnrchst (talk) 15:49, 25 July 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 04:01, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Free territory (lowercase 't'): I don't see a reason to use a capital letter. — BarrelProof (talk) 16:58, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- I disagree. Support original proposal - this isn't a page about free territories in general, it's a specific dab page and the only two entries that actually have this name are Free Territory of Trieste and Free Territory of Freedomland. We could axe the other two entries as the pages don't use this term anywhere. — Amakuru (talk) 18:41, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Those two are only partial title matches, not the full name / proper name of any topic, and the Makhnovshchina article doesn't even contain the phrase "free territory" (with either capitalization), thus failing WP:DABMENTION. The Free area of the Republic of China article also does not contain the exact string either, but does say that "Free area of the Republic of China" is "a term used ... to refer to territories" (emphasis added), which seems pretty close but again would only be a partial match in a longer topic name. There is no other page that covers "free territory" as a topic, so this is it. The lowercase term redirects here. If the term does not properly identify any topic, why format it as a proper noun (by itself)? It isn't one. People's Republic of China and Islamic Republic of Iran and Democratic Republic of the Congo are proper names. People's republic and Islamic republic and Democratic republic (and Secretary of state and Prime minister) are not, so the second word should not be capitalized if those are phrases are used by themselves without further clarification. Those are only partial title matches for the name of any specific topic. The shortened form of "Free Territory of Freedomland" is "Freedomland", not "Free Territory" (as with China, Iran and the Congo), and the same form of shortening is probably also true for the Trieste territory (especially aside from some extreme form of in-context discussion). — BarrelProof (talk) 19:49, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe this discussion should wait for the page to be moved to Free Territory? I think the discussions will be clearer if one issue is addressed at a time. It looks to me like both of you support the move in principle (ie, you agree that the page currently at Free Territory should not be there, and it should instead be a dab page), but then disagree about what the contents of the dab page should be and whether or not it should have the second word capitalized. Is that correct? -- asilvering (talk) 22:18, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, we're only talking about whether to capitalize the "t" – a very small difference. Either way, the term should be disambiguated. — BarrelProof (talk) 00:11, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe this discussion should wait for the page to be moved to Free Territory? I think the discussions will be clearer if one issue is addressed at a time. It looks to me like both of you support the move in principle (ie, you agree that the page currently at Free Territory should not be there, and it should instead be a dab page), but then disagree about what the contents of the dab page should be and whether or not it should have the second word capitalized. Is that correct? -- asilvering (talk) 22:18, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Those two are only partial title matches, not the full name / proper name of any topic, and the Makhnovshchina article doesn't even contain the phrase "free territory" (with either capitalization), thus failing WP:DABMENTION. The Free area of the Republic of China article also does not contain the exact string either, but does say that "Free area of the Republic of China" is "a term used ... to refer to territories" (emphasis added), which seems pretty close but again would only be a partial match in a longer topic name. There is no other page that covers "free territory" as a topic, so this is it. The lowercase term redirects here. If the term does not properly identify any topic, why format it as a proper noun (by itself)? It isn't one. People's Republic of China and Islamic Republic of Iran and Democratic Republic of the Congo are proper names. People's republic and Islamic republic and Democratic republic (and Secretary of state and Prime minister) are not, so the second word should not be capitalized if those are phrases are used by themselves without further clarification. Those are only partial title matches for the name of any specific topic. The shortened form of "Free Territory of Freedomland" is "Freedomland", not "Free Territory" (as with China, Iran and the Congo), and the same form of shortening is probably also true for the Trieste territory (especially aside from some extreme form of in-context discussion). — BarrelProof (talk) 19:49, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- I disagree. Support original proposal - this isn't a page about free territories in general, it's a specific dab page and the only two entries that actually have this name are Free Territory of Trieste and Free Territory of Freedomland. We could axe the other two entries as the pages don't use this term anywhere. — Amakuru (talk) 18:41, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Free territory (lowercase 't'): Since there is no primary topic, there is no need for (disambiguation). To capitalisation, there is no reasonable argument to capitalise free territory. It is only part of the two proper names - a part which is intrinsically not a proper name but descriptive. In the context of a disambiguation page, it does not have a specific referent but a choice of two. Per WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS particularly, there is no reason to assert that the phrase is necessary to capitalise. Cinderella157 (talk) 08:29, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
- Free territory (lowercase 't') per above. There's no case in which "Free Territory" is a proper name, which is what the capitalization suggests. Dicklyon (talk) 17:21, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
- Relister comment There is consensus to remove the "(disambiguation)", but there is currently no consensus so far on whether "Territory" should be capitalized. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 04:02, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
- Free territory (lowercase 't'): Descriptive. Primergrey (talk) 18:02, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.