Talk:Gender in Bugis society

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2019 and 1 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nicolefuqua5830.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:07, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please help

WP:RS are needed Satu Suro 14:40, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Context

This issue could be solved by combining these three articles into one called "Bugis gender classifications", or something similar. You would have to add new sections on "makkunrai" and "oroané". (see Bugis). 198.179.227.59 (talk) 22:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Let's go ahead and do that. --BwB (talk) 16:46, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article could possibly be transformed into one titled 'Gender roles in Bugis society' or 'Gender in Bugis society', along the lines of articles such as Gender roles in Afghanistan, Gender roles in First Nations and Native American tribes and Gender in Maya society. Vis-a-visconti (talk) 13:40, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious

This thought directly corresponds to the early Muslim idea of the Khanith and the Mukhannathun being "guards of sacred boundaries"...

None of the main articles on Khanith and Mukhannathun says they were "guards of sacred boundaries". As for Mukhannathun, the closest thing to that is that the Mukhannathun were often admitted as guests into the women's quarters as "sexually harmless" - not as guards, and not across any other "sacred boundary". At least one hadith has a Mukhannath punished for dressing as a woman, so early Islam did not sanctify Mukhannathun; it tolerated them at best. --91.148.159.4 (talk) 17:48, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category: Gender Systems?

Do you think this article should be categorized as such (Along with other articles from the same kind: "Gender in (*name*) society". Thanks. Ben-Natan (talk) 15:54, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"seized"?

§ Bissu says (fourth paragraph)

The advice of bissu is typically sought to get a particular approval from the powers of the batin (hidden) world. One example is for Bugis who leave Sulawesi for the Hajj, the compulsory pilgrimage to Mecca. The bissu then seizes them and proceeds as an emissary of the batin.

According to the last sentence, the bissu kidnaps pilgrims, or perhaps possesses them, and makes the hajj in their place, or perhaps accompanies them on it. Any of these interpretations, especially possession, would be remarkable. Explanation is required; the sentence must be revised to be "intelligible to anybody without special knowledge."^[1]

References

^ Radtke, B. "BĀṬEN". Encyclopedia Iranica. Retrieved 18 September 2017. (Cited in batin)

Thnidu (talk) 23:01, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This wording was added only a couple of months ago, without explanation, by an IP. Prior to that, it talked about a the bissu permitting a djinn to seize the pilgrims, which at least rules out the kidnapping. Both versions are unsourced, although the source for the first paragraph does discuss this topic. I'd be inclined to revert and then clean it up, using that source if possible, but you could simply remove it. Rivertorch^FIRE _WATER 18:51, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, {{u|Rivertorch]]. I've deleted the paragraphs in question. I am pasting them here in case someone wants to examine the source and fix them.

The bissu is typically sought to get a particular approval from the powers of the batin (hidden) world. One example is for Bugis who leave Sulawesi for the Hajj, the compulsory pilgrimage to Mecca. The bissu then seizes them and proceeds as an emissary of the batin.^{[citation needed]}

That violates traditional Islam but has been tolerated by the regional Muslim establishment if no act is directly against Sharia.

The change is here, on 16 July 2017, in a series of generally reasonable wording improvements by the same IP.

--Thnidu (talk) 12:45, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, good call. I'm amused by the earlier wording, which mentions not only a djinn but an "excellent djinn". Rivertorch^FIRE _WATER 16:44, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Sexuality in World Civilizations I

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 September 2022 and 10 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Syafiraa (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Syafiraa (talk) 16:08, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, just wanted to let everyone know in advance that I will be adding to this article over the next few weeks for a class, especially to the calalai and calabai sections. If there's any issues, please let me know! Syafiraa (talk) 03:08, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Radtke, B. "BĀṬEN". Encyclopedia Iranica. Retrieved 18 September 2017. (Cited in batin)

[1]