Talk:Hapoel Jerusalem F.C.
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Merger with Hapoel Katamon F.C
[edit]As written in the article, "in August 2020, Hapoel Katamon acquired the rights to the name Hapoel Jerusalem and officially became Hapoel Jerusalem". The clubs are merged for more than two years, and the former Katamon sqaud, staff, fans etc. are now in Hapoel Jerusalem. It is the same case as with Hapoel Tel Aviv B.C. and Hapoel Ussishkin who were merged in 2010. All information regarding Hapoel Katamon should be moved to this article, leaving Hapoel Katamon Jerusalem F.C. as a redirect page to this one - same as the Hebrew Wikipedia. If there are no objections, I could do it next week. תום רגב (talk) 12:56, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
- They should not in any circumstances be merged, as Hapoel Jerusalem and Hapoel Katamon Jerusalem co-existed for several seasons. The correct thing to do is to move Hapoel Jerusalem F.C. to Hapoel Jerusalem F.C. (1926) (and make that article purely about the historic club) and then move Hapoel Katamon Jerusalem F.C. to the Hapoel Jerusalem F.C. title and edit it so that it covers the period since Katamon was created and later renamed. Number 57 12:23, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
- This offer would also be misleading, for a number of reasons. Firstly, the 2020 purchase of the name included "both name and reputation"[1] of the former club. The fact that the reputation is also included means that if, for example, the united team wins the Israel State Cup, it would be considered both officially and by public audiences, as it's second state cup, with it's first one being won in 1973. Another reason is WP:Redundant, since if the articles would be split in any way, all the information about the splitting of the club, the reunification, the derby's between the two clubs, and perhaps even more information necessary for context (supporters, rivalries, earlier history etc.) would have to be mentioned twice. Katamon's plan from the beginning was to acquire the original when possible, so the histories are very intertwined. But the largest concern for me is neutrality. You see, you cannot really say about either club that it's former\historical. The issue of whether the united club is more like a continuation of Katamon or of the historic team is quite a contested one among fans. The current version implies it's a continuation of Hapoel Jerusalem while Katamon is historic, while your offer would imply the opposite - the united club is a renamed Katamon while the historic team is irrelevant to it. A merged article would not have this problem, and could explain all nuances and disagreements in a far more clear and neutral way. The issue of statistics during the times of co-existence could be easily fixed - just make two seperate tables, like done in both Hebrew wiki and the club website. תום רגב (talk) 12:42, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
- No, it wouldn't be misleading. It would be misleading to have one article on two clubs that actually played against each other at some point. Number 57 13:36, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
- This offer would also be misleading, for a number of reasons. Firstly, the 2020 purchase of the name included "both name and reputation"[1] of the former club. The fact that the reputation is also included means that if, for example, the united team wins the Israel State Cup, it would be considered both officially and by public audiences, as it's second state cup, with it's first one being won in 1973. Another reason is WP:Redundant, since if the articles would be split in any way, all the information about the splitting of the club, the reunification, the derby's between the two clubs, and perhaps even more information necessary for context (supporters, rivalries, earlier history etc.) would have to be mentioned twice. Katamon's plan from the beginning was to acquire the original when possible, so the histories are very intertwined. But the largest concern for me is neutrality. You see, you cannot really say about either club that it's former\historical. The issue of whether the united club is more like a continuation of Katamon or of the historic team is quite a contested one among fans. The current version implies it's a continuation of Hapoel Jerusalem while Katamon is historic, while your offer would imply the opposite - the united club is a renamed Katamon while the historic team is irrelevant to it. A merged article would not have this problem, and could explain all nuances and disagreements in a far more clear and neutral way. The issue of statistics during the times of co-existence could be easily fixed - just make two seperate tables, like done in both Hebrew wiki and the club website. תום רגב (talk) 12:42, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
References
- ^ Mamam, Assi. "בשם השם: הפועל קטמון הופכת להפועל ירושלים". One.