Talk:Helicopter parent

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Harm, Failure and Risk Aversion

I added a significant section on risk aversion. Totorotroll removed a sentence from the introduction about harm (which I hadn't written): "These parents rush to prevent any harm or failure from befalling them and will not let them learn from their own mistakes, sometimes even contrary to the children's wishes."

I think that the term "helicopter parent" may overlap ambiguously with several areas, i.e. "overparenting" and perhaps other names. It contrasts with "free range kids", "the idle parent". These terms may not all describe exactly the same concepts.

I live in Scotland. Can anyone else confirm or deny that avoiding harm and risk is a key part of helicopter parenting? I believe it is, and I'd suggest keeping that sentence in.

Rixs (talk)

That's sort of the general theme of the article, but we need to be citing more specific sources. Daniel Case (talk) 18:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I think that a taxonomy of parenting techniques might be nice, then we can have separate pages for distinct terms, such as Carl Honore's ideas linked to the Slow Movement.

Here are a couple of relevant links, but not necessarily verified ones, about the relationship between risk aversion and helicopter parenting and overparenting: Nation of Wimps blog, Dangers of Overparenting on pregnancy.org. I'll explore this further and probably put something back in the introduction.

I have a lot of sympathy for Carl Honore's ideas in his book Under Pressure. I'll probably write a new wikipedia entry on Slow Parenting and include The Idle Parent by Tom Hodgkinson in that. (Rixs (talk) 10:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC))

Chris Loynes says in Is It Right To Be Safe?, "part of the educative process may be the active engagement by the student with these real risks, appropriately supervised." (while talking about outdoor education). Since Helicopter Parenting has a lot do with schools, I think this is relevant. "A possible strategy, then, is for us all to take a positive attitude to risks. Rather than avoid

them or simply make all the risky decisions ourselves it would be better to adopt an approach that briefs the students fully on the nature of their situation and gives them the skills and resources to manage them for themselves. This is, after all, how we all get to learn to cross the road." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rixs (talk • contribs) 12:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

But here's a link about harm aversion, initially under the heading Over-protective Parents. It does specifically say "helicopter parents". I'll put it in. Rixs (talk) 13:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Dead Link

The link for citation 2 no longer seems to be valid

The following sentence in the article makes no sense; some text seems to be missing:

Parents, for their part to rising college tuitions, and just say that they are protecting their investment or acting like any other consumer.

David Hoag 23:27, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it was an error. "point" is missing. Will fix. Daniel Case 02:36, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Americentric

I must say, this page seems painfully Americentric, even though this is a parenting trait I've observed in other countries. In my first year of university in Australia, I've noticed some parents (thankfully not my own!) possessing traits described in this article, and the same for folks I know back in New Zealand. The actual term 'helicopter parent' is not something I've seen used (not even in American publications or amongst my American friends), but the behavioural pattern certainly is not just limited to the US. So could someone give this a bit more of an international, less Americentric approach? This is Wikipedia, not Ameripedia.

Also, please call tertiary institutions 'university', as the term is less ambiguous. 'College' to a New Zealander such as myself refers to secondary school. - Axver 11:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to see some actual sources. I don't doubt the behavior exists elsewhere, but the Googling I did when I created the article turned up only US references. I wouldn't be surprised if the term starts to get used in other English-speaking countries; it's more widely used among educators than among the general population here. Daniel Case 14:04, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I must say that it always shocks me when I go to US college websites and find a section called "parents". In Canada, everything is geared toward students. Is the "parents" section a recent development? --Westendgirl 03:28, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, according to some of the articles I've read while recently looking for things to add, quite a few colleges have created positions for parent relations. They felt there was a need. Daniel Case 03:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

An identical phenomenon has developed over the last decade in Israel where parents are more and more invested and involved in their child’s military service: http://www.army.co.il/army/forum_articles.asp?Fnumber=25&ArticleID=63 (Sorry its in Hebrew, couldn't find one in English) The phenomenon has parents calling their sons' commanders, complaining in their name, fighting for better service conditions (prior to enlistment), over-use of cell phones, etc. This too is often against the will of the son / daughter. The point is: Israeli mandatory military service is for ages 18-21, the equivalent of American College, most Israeli soldiers also live at their parents house, and there is the result of the same over-involvement. The article displays the phenomenon as something specifically to do with Collage, while it is probably more general and widespread, having less to do with College-specific reasons. DuckeJ 15:44, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Citation needed

Suburban Express employees have indicated that the ban is due to excessive parent participation in the bus ticket purchase process when cellular phones are in play

Provide a source, please. If this is something they said to you, we can't use it. If it's written down somewhere, cite it.

If there is none within seven days, I'm parking it here. Daniel Case 01:15, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Explanations?

The drinking age has not only been raised to 21 in every state but enforced vigorously in many of them.

What does this have to do with the article, much less explain the behavior in question? The drinking age was increased to 21 well before this phenomenon was recognized. -Pjorg 18:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's been suggested that it's killed the college party scene enough that that aspect of establishing independence from your parents is not as viable as it used to be. You forget that the generation currently in college, unlike those in college when it was raised or afterward (like myself), have no memory of a time when there was a lower drinking age. Thus the culture around college drinking has changed in the time since it was raised.

Mind you, this doesn't alone explain the phenomenon, but in combination with other factors increasing parental involvement in the college experience, it contributes. Daniel Case 22:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

So, to clarify, your saying that the raised drinking age has the effect of "extending childhood" (for lack of a better phrase, off the top of my head:), and by default maybe extends the parents involvement during university age? Wonder if that same effect is seen in kids who learn a trade - at that same age - and go to work instead of college? Engr105th 19:13, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I went to college in the 1960s, well before under 21 legal drinking, and there were plenty of beer busts and other under age drinking. There was even some of this among high school students. I doubt this has much to do with the phenominum discussed here. Wschart (talk) 18:15, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

This article is one-sided, the issue is not

There is a lot of controversy, and understandably so, about the use of "helicopter parent" as a stereotype to sneer at parents someone thinks are over-involved. I was never a helicopter parent but according to a scientific study quoted in the Washington Post and Inside Higher Ed such parents have many benefits for their kids. Anecdotal evidence from friends on the faculty at Harvard and MIT is that many, many of these high-achieving students have pesky helicopter parents, whose "over-involvement" has produced some wonderful kids. betsythedevine 19:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia: the free encyclopedia anyone can edit. --NEMT (talk) 15:15, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Curling parents

This concept is very well-known in Sweden under the name curlingförälder ("curling parent"). In Denmark, it appears that curlingbarn ("curling child") is more common. The article should definitely try to include information about this phenomenon as it occurs outside of the English-speaking world.

Peter ^Isotalo 10:41, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Other cultural instances

The term 'helicopter parents' brings to mind the dreaded 'kyo iku mama' in Japan... 192.206.151.130 (talk) 15:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Which is...? 86.149.0.182 (talk) 14:20, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I've heard it translated as "education mama" ... mercilessly drives her children to do as well as possible on the school exams, gets them in mutltiple jukus, study relentlessly with them at home afterwards. Sort of like some sports parents in the U.S. But this term refers not to pushy sports parents but to parents who are never too far away to cushion any adversity they might face. Daniel Case (talk) 16:54, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of which, this page is erroneously cross-referenced with the Japanese "monster parent" page, which is NOT the same thing as a helicopter parent. The above commenter refers to the "kyoiku mama", which is definitely the correct translation. The former "monster parent" makes unreasonable, selfish demands on the school (typically in elementary). This is based on personal experience as a teacher for the last eight years in Japan, two of which were spent rotating through fifteen elementary schools in Izumi, Osaka. 58.95.145.125 (talk) 14:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't know ... sounds sort of the same to me (assuming they do it on the kid's behalf). Actually, both of those types of parents would correspond with the helicopter parent stereotype in the US.

Of course, I don't speak Japanese so I certainly wouldn't understand. If there's a more appropriate corresponding article in the Japanese Wikipedia, feel free to change the link. Daniel Case (talk) 17:01, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I would just like to clarify more about what the Japanese view as a "monster parent" which I believe is in some ways similar, but in other ways different from helicopter parents. There are a few different versions of what are called "monster parents", including but not limited to (1) parents who complain to the schools about their child's performance in schools or exams or even the child's behavior at home, (2) parents who demand their child's teacher write recommendation letters to prestegious schools in order to attempt to gain admission for the child, (3) parents who ask their child's teacher to prepare lunch during school trips or field trips, (4) parents who refuse to pay fees for school related events or school lunch, and closely related, (5) parents who ask their child's teacher to pay for their child's school fees (school lunch is eaten by all of the students in Japanese elementary and junior high/middle schools, and all students/students' parents or guardians are expected to pay for school lunch. Other events may iclude school trips, field trips, which the students/families are expected to pay for as well). Traveling matt (talk) 04:18, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Hmm ... would be nice to have some reliable sourcing on that. I find it interesting ... some Japanese parents actually complain to schools about the child's behavior at home? And we in the US were always told to look to the Japanese as paragons of personal responsibility! (2) is actually rather common behavior in the US, when it comes to college applications at least, to the point that no one holds it against a parent (well, if the parent does all the asking, anyway ... students are really the ones who are supposed to ask the teacher for recommendations). (3) is inapplicable; meals on school trips are either up to the student if they've been given money or not at all (and more the latter, lately ... schools want no part of the liability for some kid's near-fatal allergic reaction under their care). (4) and (5) would be unforgivable bad behavior in the US ... a teacher might voluntarily do it for a poor child, but a parent asking? I've never heard of that. Daniel Case (talk) 15:03, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

A noted Japanese authority on Education, Naoki Ogi gave a short report of his top 5 worst monster parents on the Japanese variety TV show ホンマでっかＴＶ, and here is a link to the contents of that episode (written by a private blog writer with no relation to the show or the reference) http://topicsnow.blog72.fc2.com/blog-entry-1321.html but it's all in Japanese. He said that there are basically 5 types of monster parents, (1)"No moral" parents (2) "Rights Claim" parents (3) "School dependant" parents (4) Negligent parents and (5) "My child is the center of the universe" parents. On the show, he said that these were actual cases that teachers had asked him for advice on. Soem of the cases I listed above are from what I saw on the show. I think I should have looked this up first and put it before my previous post. Sorry. Traveling matt (talk) 04:43, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

explanation

zobango is my user name when i'm logged in. I just think the article needs some cleanup, but i couldn't find the general cleanup template —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.240.0.213 (talk) 22:05, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

FERPA

I've stricken the following sentence from the Origins section:

Newer federal laws, such as the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), have also recognized the importance of family in the educational process.

That's an unsupported analysis of the Act and puts undue emphasis on that (apparent) intent/application of it--implies FERPA keeps parents in the loop. FERPA explicitly prohibits the sharing of many types of information about college students with their parents. DMacks (talk) 12:05, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that was sort of suggested by the abstract of a registration-only article I came across while doing the initial research (I suppose, though, that someone somewhere has argued that, since it does exclude parents from the legal loop, parents have compensated by bringing their children closer and getting closer to them while they're in college. Sort of hard to keep grade info from the 'rents when you're living at home and they can open your mail). Daniel Case (talk) 14:15, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Deleted references

The following references were deleted by User:ElKevbo. It might be worth putting them back in if there's a good reason:

• Shellenbarger, Sue; July 29, 2005; Colleges Ward Off Overinvolved Parents, The Wall Street Journal; retrieved from careerjournal.com May 1, 2006.
• The College Board; Are you a helicopter parent?, retrieved May 1, 2006.
• CNN Article: 'Helicopter parents' try to help their kids land jobs, retrieved November 7, 2006.
• University of Texas at Austin; April 2, 2007; [1] "Mom Needs an 'A': Hovering, Hyper-Involved Parents the topic of landmark study.
• From everydaypsychology.com Helicopter parents: disturbing trend or urban myth?
• Jobpostings magazine article: Helicopter Parents: When to tell them to take off http://www.jobpostings.ca/articleDetail.cfm?id=373
• Amaya, Ismael, "How First-Generation College and Underrepresented Students Can Overcome Obstacles to Attaining a College Education: Handbook for a New Family Tradition" (2010). Applied Research Projects. Texas State University Paper 318. http://ecommons.txstate.edu/arp/318

-- Rixs (talk) 09:26, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

They were deleted solely because they weren't actually used as references to support anything written in this article. --ElKevbo (talk) 11:10, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I understand. I basically agree with your action, but I didn't want the list to be lost, so I've put it here. A future editor may wish to work them back in to the article. -- Rixs (talk) 10:58, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

They could be reinserted as a "Further reading" section. Daniel Case (talk) 14:29, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, they could. I'd prefer to lump them together with the current links in "External links" so we can evaluate all of them and trim the list considerably. In my experience, both "Further reading" and "External links" can quickly and easily grow out of hand as editors indiscriminately toss their favorite links and articles into the sections without sufficient justification or contemplation. --ElKevbo (talk) 14:43, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

21st century term?

The article says the term was coined in 1990. Is it fair to refer to it as a 21st century term? 24.4.132.252 (talk) 01:33, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

In the sense that it came into wider use a decade after its coinage, yes. Daniel Case (talk) 03:48, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

cosseting parent

Where is this term "cosseting parent" actually used? =//= Johnny Squeaky 23:08, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't know. I didn't add it. I can only find one real use of it independent of mirrors of this article, and even then I'm not sure. Daniel Case (talk) 23:29, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

External Links section

Two of the links in the external links section take me to a page that doesn't exist anymore. The one remaining link, the wall street journal one, it doesn't take me to the article mentioned. I don't edit wikipedia much, so I'm not sure what to do about it other than mentioning it here.--137.104.190.106 (talk) 21:17, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

@137.104.190.106: We usually put "{{dead link}}" in the footnote text, after the citation text, at least. The more ambitious thing to do is go to archive.org and put in "archiveurl=" and "archivedate=" in the citation template itself, assuming you find archived versions there.

I suppose I should do this myself. But thanks for the catch! Daniel Case (talk) 02:17, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

No merge on the grounds of no consensus over 23 months and no arguments in support WP:SILENCE on two most recent views in opposition. Klbrain (talk) 15:24, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

---

I propose merging the Monster parents article into this article. Currently, this article mainly deals with the United States viewpoint, while the Monster parents article mainly deals with the Japanese or East Asian (e.g. Hong Kong) viewpoint. The Japanese and Chinese versions of the article (the interwiki linked articles) mainly deal with the Monster parents article, but contain a brief mention of the Helicopter parent article. Since these topics are broadly equivalent, a merger may be appropriate. sst✈^(conjugate) 03:33, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I like the idea but am reluctant to support it unless reliable sources make the connection otherwise it seems too much like original research for Wikipedia editors to directly equate the two ideas. ElKevbo (talk) 04:34, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Agree with Kevbo. As it looks now they are comparable phenomena that play out differently in different cultures. Daniel Case (talk) 05:49, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

@ElKevbo and Daniel Case: should I edit the Wikidata inter-language links so that the Japanese and Chinese Wikipedia language versions link to the Monster parents article instead? These language versions basically deal with the Monster parents concept but includes a small paragraph saying something like "In the United States, parents who pay too much attention to their children are called Monster parents, describing that these parents are like helicopters that can land at anytime to help solve their children's problems". It may be a good idea to de-orphan the Monster parents article and improve it rather than merging it here, after looking at your comments. sst✈^(conjugate) 03:10, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Well, do the Chinese and Japanese versions discuss the concept in more than an academic context? That seems to be the thrust of the English monster parents article. Daniel Case (talk) 03:18, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I don't have the Japanese or Chinese cultural competence to tell you if these ideas are identical. It sounds like you're on the right track. ElKevbo (talk) 00:10, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

I just opened the Japanese article in Chrome so I could see it in translation. As suggested above it discusses the term primarily in terms of a parent or parents making unreasonable requests of a child's teacher; whereas our article discusses it in terms of a parent who overprotects their children in all aspects of life, not just school.

I cannot, however, yet get the Chinese article translated. Daniel Case (talk) 01:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• I think that "Helicopter parents" and "Monster parents" are separate enough terms that it'd be better to have separate articles. However, I do feel that Monster parents and Hong Kong Kids phenomenon could be merged... -- Tavix ^(talk) 01:33, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• Merge Helicopter parent with Monster parent. Both zh.wp and ja.wp clearly state that "helicopter parent" is the American English equivalent of "monster parent" in Hong Kong and Japanese. There are substantial benefits in merging:
  • There is no overlap in interwiki coverage between "helicopter parent" and "monster parent" except on en.wp. Merging will enable the coverage of more languages to be linked together.
  • The "helicopter parent" article current suffers from a "US-only" bias; the "monster parent" article currently suffers from a "Hong Kong only" bias. Merging them will fulfil the "worldwide view" aspiration of these articles.

On the other hand, Hong Kong Kids phenomenon, with "Hong Kong" explicitly named and its own Wikidata language links, should remain a separate article. Deryck C. 17:28, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

I've found these two sources - (English language, Japanese publisher); (Chinese language, Hong Kong publisher) - which explicitly equate "monster parents" with "helicopter parents" as the same phenomenon occurring in different cultures. @Tavix, ElKevbo, SSTflyer, and Daniel Case: Thoughts? Deryck C. 22:09, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, but I'm not sure that the Japanese article quite understands what Americans (at least) mean by "helicopter parent". As I said above, a helicopter parent is as much one who, at the playground, is never so far as for the kid to cry too long after being hurt, as it would be one who (per the examples in the article), manages their children at college in a way never thought acceptable before (really, it was at American colleges and universities where the term came into its present meaning). Daniel Case (talk) 05:16, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I think it's better to merge because it'll be original research if we decided they were two separate concepts, despite external sources showing the relation between them. I suspect the separation of these en.wp articles is the primary reason why Wikidata hasn't linked the two concepts together. I'd prefer a single WD item and en.wp article called "helicopter parent" with "monster parent" as an alias. Deryck C. 19:38, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

@Deryck Chan: I'm beginning to see what you mean. The real question is what we would call a merged article, since either would be specific to one culture. Daniel Case (talk) 17:40, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

My suggestion would be to call the article "Helicopter parent", with the first line saying "A helicopter parent or monster parent is a parent who pay extremely close attention to..." I think "helicopter parent" should be used, because in English-language contexts the American terminology is going to be more common, with "monster parent" more commonly appearing in its Japanese and Chinese forms instead. Deryck C. 22:51, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

• See User:Deryck Chan/sandbox for a minimal-effort merge draft of the two articles. I will do more copyediting and expand on the phenomenon of monster parents in Japan, if the merge proposal is enacted. Deryck C. 23:05, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

• I've left Wikidata user talk messages to all editors who have edited either item on WD, except those who have already commented on this discussion. Deryck C. 17:04, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

• Actually, I was one of the editors of helicopter parents. The idea was to give an explanation of this phenomena because during an antrophology class, nothing was found about the topic. This is the first time that I've heard about 'monster parents' and I'm certainly agree about referring to this topic as 'helicopter parents' (because of the similarity and context with the english language), but also I would like to suggest to make the suggestion or some kind of "refer to" to see 'monster parents' or to compare similarities and differences between these two. Thanks for including me @Deryck Chan: ~ --Gecast (talk) 06:47, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

• Don't Merge Just because something is similar doesn't make it the same thing. Certainly, helicopter parents and monster parents deserve a wiki-link or a see also, but they really should remain separate articles. Picking a title for the new article would be a problem and the vast majority of the sourcing would only apply to one or the other. --DynaGirl (talk) 00:24, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose merger – distinctive origins and implications between the cultures. (Note, editors who are interested in the topic ought to look at the Reader's Digest article "When Good Parents Get Arrested" by Lenore Skenazy and Kelsey Kloss, May 2016. This article covers zealous Child Protective Services enforcement actions for parenting activities which were considered normal and sensible a generation ago. Indeed, CPS enforcement may be the motivation for helicopter parenting in order keep parents out of jail.) – S. Rich (talk) 02:04, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

•  Done Merger Complete AmericanAir88 (talk) 02:52, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Reverted. There is no consensus to merge articles. --DynaGirl (talk) 04:41, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Cosseting parent

If there a reference for text which says helicopter parents are also referred to as cosseting parents or cosseters? This has apparently been in the opening sentence of the lead for some time, but it's not in body of article and I cannot find a ref for this. --DynaGirl (talk) 14:42, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Update- I found a ref for this and added it to the article [2]--DynaGirl (talk) 16:02, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

@DynaGiel: Thanks! Daniel Case (talk) 20:19, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

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Relationship between child's birth order and helicopter parents

Is there any information on whether helicopter parenting is more closely associated with those who are only children or are oldest children? Reeseash (talk) 01:30, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

If you know where they might be some on this, please add it. See if Google Scholar might have something. Daniel Case (talk) 03:51, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Psychology of the Family

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2023 and 4 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mslillsd (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Morg0078.

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