Talk:Ho people

WP:INDIA Banner/Jharkhand workgroup Addition

{{WP India}} with Jharkhand workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Jharkhand or one of its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 10:24, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Ho Tribes are also residing in Odisha,Jharkhand,Westbengal,Assam,Madhyapradesh,Bihar also.If you have doubt, you can ask me on my talk page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Biswajeet34 (talk • contribs) 10:59, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Ho Tribe

Please edit Ho Tribe wikipedia by accurate,reliable sources with proper history,anthropology knowledges. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Biswajeet34 (talk • contribs) 10:57, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

You seem to have limited English capabilities so I will list my points in short easy-to-understand bullets:

• Everything in my improvements was sourced, you gave no reason for reverting them.
• The version of the article you keep reverting to is in very poor shape. The WP:LEAD contains irrelevant information and "citation needed" tags and does not meet MOS:INTRO which says that the lede must summarize all the important information in the article. My improvements provided current academic sources and summarized things such as language, culture and education which is currently not covered in the article.
• There are no sources indicating the people listed in the "Notable Ho" section are Ho. Most of them are living people. This is a violation of Wikipedia's Biography of Living Persons policy.
• The whole article is written in very poor English with many grammar and punctuation errors which my edits addressed.

Stop reinstating the bad version. I am trying to improve this poor article but you are making it impossible by constantly reverting my work.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 07:22, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Consider using the {{Edit fully protected}} template. The administrator will consider making a change if you specify it clearly. The best plan is to say what sentence you want to remove, and what you want to replace it with. If you see grammar and punctuation errors, say what they are. EdJohnston (talk) 01:36, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Fully-protected edit request

Starting with the BLP problems because those are probably more serious than even the grammar/punctuation/spelling/referencing:

• Under the "Notable Ho people" subsection, please remove all the names except Lako Bodra and Bagun Sumbrai. Most of these are living people and there are no sources here or at their respective articles indicating they are Ho (I have checked them all). In fact, some of the articles indicate a completely different ethnicity (eg. Jaipal Singh Munda). There are two who seem to be deceased, but, again, there are no sources here or in their articles indicating they were Ho. Birsa Munda for example, indicates he was Munda, not Ho. I also did a cursory web search last week and was unable to find any reference to Ho ethnicity for these people.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 06:40, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Lako Bodra and Bagun Sumbrai may require sources as well. Those who are not BLP would not require self-admission but still a reliable source. Capitals00 (talk) 08:37, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that's why I asked for them to be removed. Lako Bodra is arguably the most famous Ho, having invented their alphabet and written their holy book; there is this source (and many like it that I could add if not for the protection). Bagun Sumbrai is a well known Ho politician, a quick google search finds this (not the best, I know, but it's 3 AM here and I'm tired...editing by request is so tedious).--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 10:23, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:46, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Fully-protected edit request

1. Please change the title of the "Culture and Tradition" subsection to simply "Culture". It is redundant since tradition is a part of culture. It would also be consistent with other ethnicity articles.
2. Like much of the article, the first paragraph of the "Culture and Tradition" subsection is written in broken English. There are also red links, random white spaces and inaccuracies. I plan to rewrite the entire section with sources, but that would be even more tedious using this FPER procedure. Therefore, for now, please replace the entire first paragraph of the section with:

Ho village life revolves around five main parab or festivals. The most important festival, Mage Parab, takes place in the late winter month of Magha and marks the completion of the agricultural cycle. It is a week-long celebration held to honor Singbonga, the creator god. Other lesser bonga ("deities") are also honored throughout the week. Baa Parab, the Festival of Flowers held in mid-spring, celebrates the yearly blossoming of the sacred Sal trees. Sohrai is the most important agricultural festival, the date of which usually coincides with the nationwide Diwali festivities in the fall. It is a village wide celebration with music and dancing held in honor of the cattle used in cultivation. During the ceremonies, the cows are painted with a flour and dye mix, anointed with oil and prayed over after a black chicken is sacrificed to an image of the cattle bonga. Baba Hermutu is the ceremonial first sowing. The date is set each year in the early spring by the deuri who also officiates the three-day ceremony by praying and commencing his first sowing of the year. Jomnama Parab is held in late fall before the first harvest is eaten to thank the spirits for a trouble-free harvest.

Thank you.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 09:49, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

References

• Protection has been lifted, so you can make this change yourself if you believe it has consensus. EdJohnston (talk) 03:01, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

I don't see any objections yet, I'm doing to go ahead and make the edit and then begin an overhaul. I hate to jump right in after protection has been lifted (as, for me, it wasn't about "getting my way" but rather improving WP through improving the article), but I plan to start by modifying the lede to get rid of the citation needed/clarification templates and adding more summary information per MOS:INTRO. It seems pretty uncontroversial to me; most of the same info will be there, just reorganized a bit, with some more sourced info added in. The only thing really removed from the lede will be the "warrior tribe" sentence as it isn't discussed anywhere in the article and is misinformation anyway: the Ho are an agricultural tribe. Additionally, the sourcing for that sentence isn't clear either. Of course, further changes to the lede may be warranted as the article content is reworked. Also the century-old "pseudo-scientific" sources should be replaced with modern scholarship. I will try to save in smaller chunks so if there happen to be any objections, it will be easier for others to edit (or revert). Per WP:BRD, I don't mind the "R" as long as there is a productive "D". --William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 06:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 11 October 2017

Biswajeet34 18:04, 11 October 2017 (UTC) I want to edit Notable persons .so,please allow me .

@Biswajeet34: If it were just a problem with one person, that person could have been blocked. Instead, it's two people, so they locked the page. You could have avoided this but your behavior caused it. 2602:306:BC31:4AA0:B5EE:4B5C:35DE:3020 (talk) 18:14, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

The editor who made this request is currently blocked, so there is for the moment nothing more to do. EdJohnston (talk) 15:38, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Population and location

Listing sources and data in one place for possible reworking of the lede. Feel free to expand, with better and more recent sources.

• Tribal profile (page 8): total population= 806921 (2001 census). Usual places of habitation: Bihar, West Bengal, Jharkhand, Orissa
• ST in Jharkand: population = 10.5% of 7,087,068 = 744k (2001 census).

More later. Abecedare (talk) 20:05, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

@Abecedare: I agree that West Bengal is mentioned in the first line of this source, but few paras down, the source writes "Ho is a very old tribal language. In some areas, it is called by other names like Kol, Kolha and Munda" which makes it confusing since Kol, Kolha and Munda are separate ethno-linguistic groups. This is making me doubt the source. Secondly, the inclusion of West Bengal and Assam in a sentence which ends with "they constitute around 10.5% of the Scheduled Tribes" is plain wrong since only in Jharkhand and Odisha, the population is that high. Assam doesn't have a Ho population as per census year 2011 and West Bengal has 23000+ but that consititutes a negligible 0.4% of the toal ST population of the state. I believe only the TOI source above can be kept since it talks about "Ho people". The other sources this and this are more "Ho language" centric. And the lead needs to be reworded as per Census 2011 here. It is full of unsourced and original researches.

As for this, changes I believe I'll keep "orissapost" citation only when a piece of text is not supported by more reliable sources. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:55, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

• For the lede sentence, I agree that we should look to replace the newspaper/magazine sources with more authoritative ones. For the moment lets just collect the best sources, and then we can get down to the business of summarizing them. Adding the 2011 Census reports you refer to, to the list:
  • ST-14 Scheduled Tribe Population By Religious Community (2011 census)
  • ST-15 Scheduled Tribe By Mother Tongue (2011 census)

By the way, I am assuming that the Ho scheduled tribe the census bureau is talking about is the subject of this article. There is no controversy about that, right? Abecedare (talk) 19:39, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

@Abecedare: I only had problem with the older framing of the lede which presented the Ho as a "group concentrated in the states of Jharkhand and Odisha, West Bengal and Assam where they constitute around 10.5% of the Scheduled Tribes". It was totally an over representation of their numbers in the states of Odisha, West Bengal and Assam. Since in Odisha and Bengal, they constitute only 0.84% and 0.44% respectively of the total Schedueld Tribes population. They are only heavily concentrated in the state of Jharkhand. And Census 2011 didn't find any Ho in Assam and Chhattisgarh which I've removed. I've reworded the lead as per Census 2011 and the sources provided by you. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:37, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Have been googling/mulling about the article off and on. Will follow-up in a day or so. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 20:44, 1 July 2019 (UTC)