Talk:Holding (aeronautics)

Searching for 'holding' didn't turn up anything so I created a new article, I later accidentally stumbled across the article at Hold (aviation). Since it was shorter and hadn't been edited much I have merged it into this article. I reused the illustrations from that page. Rpvdk 10:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

as for a hold being used for VFR pattern, I've never seen that, I've been told to make a right three sixty to avoid traffic or to let some other guy in in front of me, as for "cessna 12345, hold over the overpass, left hand turns, five mile legs" I've never heard of that in the states

• Me neither. What I usually get is "Piper 12345, remain west of the interstate and call me back in three minutes" or something, but that can still be considered a hold, it's just a very vaguely-defined one.
  • They are used in Europe, usually over a reporting point on a published VFR arrival route. As an example, check this chart: http://www.ais-netherlands.nl/aim/060525-060706/eAIP/html/graphics/eAIP/GG-VAC-1-A4.pdf There are VFR holds over T and N. -- Rpvdk 07:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Some recent additions were making the article very technical very early. I've moved these down a bit. The article should first explain the basics, and then go in depth for completeness. Too many technical terms right at the start may needlessly confuse someone not familiar with aviation. -- Rpvdk 22:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Bump article status

As requested by User:Terraxos I've added references to the article, and I think it looks pretty okay. Not great by any means, but better than start-class. Therefore, I suggest we bump the article up to B-class. Thoughts, comments, criticisms? I'll bump the article up on or about 4/19/08 unless there's disagreement. Yvh11a (Talk • Contribs) 21:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Changed. Yvh11a (Talk • Contribs) 02:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

So...what is a "holding fix"?

This would be better at explaining a holding pattern if the article bothered to explain what a "holding fix" is. (74.177.36.93 (talk) 05:07, 19 November 2010 (UTC))

History of the holding pattern owes its shape to that of an island - really?

I find this very doubtful. For one, ships don't have to fall into a holding pattern - if a harbour is full, they just stop - not something aircraft can do. There's no way I can believe ships had to circle the island rather than just stay put if they couldn't enter the harbour. And if the ships were to just drop anchor near the island, its shape to today's aircraft holding pattern would have to be nothing more than just coincidental. Ships were having to stop outside congested harbours long before this man-made island was created. I can't possibly believe that the shape of a holding pattern has anything to do with historical islands - it's simply probably the most convenient and practical shape for the purpose it holds for aircraft. I'd delete this paragraph entirely, but since I'm not *sure* it isn't true, thought it best to flag as dubious. If someone has any evidence that this idea is actually true, please cite a source. Otherwise, if there's a general consensus, the paragraph should be deleted entirely.

I echo this. I will delete it because it lacks any reference. I'm not sure if the paragraph is implying that ships were moving in a circular/elliptical pattern, because they'd naturally be unable to do that due to the wind. Furthermore, we know of many examples of big convoys in the age of sail loitering outside ports because they couldn't beat up into the wind. Anchoring near the inlet was often undesirable because closeness to the shore enhanced the risk of falling in lee. I don't see much justification in the paragraph for claiming any tie to aviation, and it reeks of fictition. 88.91.84.31 (talk) 12:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Weird Abbreviation for knots

I fly professionally in Canada and I have never seen knots abbreviated kn, the way the person who wrote the Canadian holding speeds rules does. It's always kts. It's difficult to read that way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.174.136 (talk) 07:32, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I came back with a citation for the Canadian abbreviation for knots as kt. This is from the MANAB, the official Nav Canada (like part of the US FAA) document about abbreviations. http://www.ec.gc.ca/manab/default.asp?lang=En&n=BC1E02C7-1#sK. I would edit the page myself, but it's encoded in an obscure way and I don't know where the source is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.174.136 (talk) 10:46, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Entry Angles

This article mentions the three types of HP entry procedures, (direct, parallel and teardrop) but omits the important information on how to decide when to use each one.

That information is provided in a diagram in this article: http://www.pilotsweb.com/train/pattern.htm

Choosing the HP entry procedure is probably the most confusing thing for pilots new to Holding Patterns, so I'd recommend it be worked in. (I came here t this article, actually, precisely to refresh my memory of it.)

Koan911 (talk) 14:05, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Translations

What is the difference between loitering and holding patterns ? Could one of them be the "circuit d'hippodrome" as presented in French by the IVAO ? (77.242.202.244 (talk) 12:55, 23 June 2015 (UTC))

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Holding (aeronautics). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080422015034/http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/instrument_flying_handbook/ to http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/instrument_flying_handbook/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:03, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Holding (aeronautics). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130411201142/http://www.sheppardair.com/ACs/faa-h-8083-15.pdf to http://www.sheppardair.com/ACs/faa-h-8083-15.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:33, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Unsourced material

Article has been tagged for needing sources long-term. Feel free to reinsert the below material with appropriate references. DonIago (talk) 14:49, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Implementation

Less frequent turns are more comfortable for passengers and crew. Additionally, left-hand turns may be assigned to some holding patterns if there are airspace or traffic restrictions nearby. In the absence of a radio beacon, the holding fix can be any fixed point in the air, and can be created using two crossing VHF omnidirectional range radials (also called intersection), or it can be at a specific distance from a VOR using a coupled distance measuring equipment. When DME is used, the inbound turn of the racetrack may be permanently defined by distance limits rather than in minutes. Furthermore, in appropriately equipped aircraft, GPS waypoints may be used to define the holding pattern, eliminating the need for ground-based navigational aids entirely. A hold for visual flight rules aircraft is usually a (smaller) racetrack pattern flown over something easily recognizable on the ground, such as a bridge, highway intersection or lake.

Limiting usage of holdings
Aircraft flying in circles is an inefficient (and hence costly) usage of time and fuel, so measures are taken to limit the amount of holding necessary. Air traffic flow management is used to delay aircraft while grounded at their departure points when delays are expected at their destinations.

Flying a holding pattern

Many aircraft have a specific holding speed published by the manufacturer; this is a lower speed at which the aircraft uses less fuel per hour than normal cruise speeds. Typical holding speeds for transport category aircraft are 389–491 km/h (210–265 kn). Holding speeds are a function of aircraft weight at the point of holding. If possible, a holding pattern is flown with flaps and landing gear up to save fuel. Entry procedures and accurate flying of the holding procedure are essential parts of IFR pilot training, and will always be tested on examination flights. Modern autopilots, coupled with flight management systems, can enter and fly holding patterns automatically.

Timing corrections

==Timing corrections== To achieve a one-minute inbound leg, there are two commonly used ways to modify timings: Simple method: If inbound leg is less than one minute, add the same number of seconds to the outbound leg. If the inbound time is more than one minute, subtract the same number of seconds from the outbound leg. E.g., inbound time is 0:55 → outbound time is 1:05. E.g., inbound time is 1:06 → outbound time is 0:54. More precise method: Subtract 2/3 of the error (in seconds) for inbound legs more than one minute, and add 3/2 of the error (in seconds) for inbound legs of less than one minute. E.g., inbound time is 0:56 → error is 4 seconds. Thus +3/2*4=+6. 1:00+0:06=1:06. Fly 1:06 outbound. E.g., inbound time is 1:06 → error is 6 seconds. Thus −2/3*6=−4. 1:00−0:04=0:56. Fly 0:56 outbound. Additionally, for an initial estimate, add the headwind or subtract the tailwind component's speed in knots. E.g., initial outbound with a tailwind component of 7 knots → initial outbound time is 0:53. E.g., initial outbound with a headwind component of 20 knots → initial outbound time is 1:20.