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Nationality

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It has to be made clear that this boy is Scottish and a British citizen; having an Irish grandmother does not make him Irish; as far as I understand it, and maybe I'm wrong, he was born and raised in Scotland to Scottish parents. He has never played for the Republic of Ireland either; doing so, should he ever, will not make him cease to be Scottish either, as sporting teams are just sporting teams. If this teenager has any personal views on his own nationality, the outside world has not been made aware of it, as his reasons for apparently choosing to play for an Irish youth team (which wouldn't make him a legal footballing Irishman either) have not been revealed. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 02:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, he has now played for Ireland at under age level.--Vintagekits 19:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Playing for Ireland doesn't make him Irish and I'd have strong reservations about the line in the introduction which states that he's a "Scottish born Irish footballer". This just isn't accurate, he's a Scottish footballer who has represented the Republic of Ireland at under age level. He's no more Irish than, for instance, Nigel Quashie is Scottish (note the introduction to his article). This isn't just an issue with James McCarthy's article, the same format has been applied to numerous other players such as Aiden McGeady and Sean St Ledger. All politics and tit for tat debates put to one side, it just isn't accurate to call these players "Irish footballers" and has the potential to confuse readers who are not familiar with their backgrounds. I propose that these articles are all changed to follow the more conventional introduction format as used in the Nigel Quashie article. Blankfrackis (talk) 00:40, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As football goes - he is Irish - his choice, deal with it!--Vintagekits (talk) 22:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We're not talking about football, we're talking about his actual nationality. When you refer to someone as an "Irish footballer" you are not talking about what national football team they play for, you're talking about his nationality and in no way, by any definition of nationality, is James McCarthy Irish. Either make some legitimate case for his nationality being Irish (there is none) or accept that the introduction is misleading. Blankfrackis (talk) 00:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
...which isn't to say, of course, that the fact he has chosen to play for Ireland shouldn't be entered into this article as a legitimate decision. All we're asking here is that you word it in a way which doesn't completely violate reality. Blankfrackis (talk) 00:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nationality is a really complicated issue, as it seems everyone in the world seems to have their own definition of it. In this case, unlike what the original poster said, the presence of an Irish grandmother does indeed make James McCarthy Irish, as it entitles him to Irish citizenship under Irish nationality law, I take it he has used that and become an Irish citizen, as unless there is some (ridiculous) FIFA rule that lets non-citizens play for national teams, he would have to have taken it up to play for Irish youth teams. It is also common practice to refer to athletes by the nation they represent, even in ambiguous cases such as this. If you ask me, he should be referred to as a "Scottish born Irish footballer" as it is the only wording that takes both of his nationalities into consideration, if you say he is Scottish, you ignore his Irish citizenship and his choice of national team but if you say he is Irish you ignore his country of birth and his British citizenship. 81.231.155.144 (talk) 09:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd far rather leave the adjectives out of it entirely. The current article makes it clear that he was born in Scotland but has played at youth level for ROI. That's all we need to say. This is hardly unusual at this point, as both Scotland and ROI have fielded a significant number of "foreign-born nationals" over the last thirty years or so. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Vintagekits has reverted to his preferred version, an unambigous (and flatly false) "Irish" with an obscured link to the Irish FA. This should obviously be reverted as discussed above. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think I might have found the best alternative by looking at the page about Giuseppe Rossi, basically say that he was born in Scotland, that he holds dual British and Irish citizenship and that he plays for Irish youth teams. Ideal in my oppinion as it doesn't favor one over the other, what do you think? 81.231.155.144 (talk) 11:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Having worked on that one myself, I'd say it's a perfect example, yes. That said, we first need a reliable source which actually confirms he's got Irish citizenship. This may not actually be required for Ireland; pretty sure Northern Irish players can play for ROI as a matter of choice without having to adopt dual nationality, for instance. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would say that Richard Gough is an interesting example!--Vintagekits (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Richard Gough self-identifies as Scottish and has a direct paternal Scottish bloodline. In that respect he's no more interesting than Singapore-born Terry Butcher. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I presume you were referring to the case of Darron Gibson with your comment about Northern Irish players? In that case he was able to represent the Republic as Irish nationality law applies to everyone born on the island of Ireland, rather than just those born in the Republic. I think that unless someone can find official word from FIFA that says non-citizens can play for a national team, it would be safe to assume that James McCarthy holds Irish citizenship. 81.231.155.144 (talk) 19:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd rather not assume anything. Regardless, we won't have to once the recent rewording is undone to reflect the previous consensus, which I'll do tomorrow unless there's a more compelling argument to the contrary. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 21:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Present concensus of 1? Actually my learned IP friend is correct on this issue you need an Irish passport to play for Ireland - thems FIFA rules. Irish is as Irish does! --Vintagekits (talk) 22:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Calgacus, Blankfrackis, the learned IP and I are all in agreement that the use of the term "Irish" as an adjective is inappropriate here. Couple that with the consensus to the same effect on talk:Giuseppe Rossi. As such, there is certainly consensus. The same obviously applies to Aiden McGeady, which I see you have likewise unilaterally edited to reflect your own POV while this discussion was ongoing. Both will be adjusted. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 08:58, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unsurprisingly, Vintagekits has reverted this again, with the summary "rv no consensus". If anyone else supports his position then please speak up. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 21:53, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Update

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Well, another week has passed, and there's still no further support for the change, so I've restored the previous wording. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:50, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The correct terminology would be "Scottish-born Irish footballer", as is the case with many dual-nationality footballers who've played internationally for countries they're not born in? --Jimbo[online] 11:27, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, this is patently nonsense, as has indeed been discussed to death on countless other dual-nationality articles. That someone plays for Ireland does not make him "Irish" in itself, as evidenced by the presence of several self-identifying Englishmen in the recent Scotland squads. "Scottish-born" implies that his nationality has changed, where it has not. Adding a label by courtesy of an adjective where we can simply explain the exact situation in a couple of sentences is a far preferable solution and is the one which has support here, on talk:Giuseppe Rossi and in any other recent discussion of the issue. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I support Chris' version - the statement along the lines "born in X, played for Y" is incontrovertible and neutral. I just await the inevitable "which flag do we use in the squad list?" discussion... Knepflerle (talk) 11:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think that wording is correct. I would only change it to say "Irish international" (piping to the full international team) if he plays for the full national team. I think it is also worth noting in this discussion that McCarthy only chose to play for Ireland because they were the only country who selected him (ie if the SFA had pulled their finger out 2-3 years ago he would have played for Scotland). This is somewhat similar to McGeady. In his case the SFA had some bizarre dispute with the schoolboys association which meant that they didn't offer to select him, leaving Ireland as the only national team willing to pick him. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 11:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Why is this preferable to explaining the concept over two sentences, which eliminates ambiguity? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:57, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Holds an Irish passport and plays for Ireland - therefore Irish.--Vintagekits (talk) 09:15, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: McCarthy's Nationality

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How should the issue of McCarthy's nationality and the team he chooses to play international football be phrased? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE
See also the sister RfC at talk:Aiden McGeady#RfC: McGeady's Nationality.

Opinion by Chris Cunningham

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My opinion, as given in the previous section, is that due to the disputed nature of nationality (especially as it pertains to sports representation) that we should not use broad terms such as "Irish" or "Scottish-born" to refer to the McCarthy's nationality. Instead, we should simply explain, in a couple of sentences, exactly what the facts are: that McCarthy was born in Scotland, but has chosen to play for the Republic of Ireland. This revision contains wording that seems appropriate.

The same compromise was reached (after considerable debate) on Giuseppe Rossi, who is in an almost identical situation.

Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Opinion by Vintagekits

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My opinion, as given in the previous section, is that due to the fact that nationality with regards football pertains to what country they play for - where they were born is not a defining factor. Both McCarthy and McGeady hold Irish passports and choose to play for Ireland - therefore making them Irish - simple as that no matter what bigots think. The Irish diaspora is very strong and it is hardly uncommon to for 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation Irish people to still consider themselves primarily Irish - given the fact that both of these players actually hold Irish passports and play for Ireland just rubber stamps that.

The same situation arises with Richard Gough, who is in an almost identical situation.

I actually think that the current wording which states he is an "Irish international footballer" with a link to the article on the Irish team is a fair compromise.

--Vintagekits (talk) 10:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Gough is not in an identical situation at all; Gough's father was Scottish and he self-identifies as Scottish. There is no direct parental link between McCarthy and Ireland, and several times McCarthy has stated that his choice of national team was one of opportunity rather than due to his self-identification as an Irishman. Furthermore, he is currently a British subject with a British passport who lives and works in the United Kingdom, so it would seem odd to omit this (as you have made no intimation that the word "British" be used in addition to "Irish"). The comment about "bigots" is best ignored as ad hominem. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:54, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am just making the same replies here as I am on the McGeady page - so I keep the replies there.--Vintagekits (talk) 11:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's impossible to argue that "nationality with regards to football pertains to what country they play for". Even if you personally believe this, it's neither proper usage of the term "nationality" nor the definition to which 98% of potential readers of the article will subscribe (and therefore causes confusion). I find it difficult to believe that you can't accept a simple listing of the facts in this article - McCarthy was born in Scotland, holds a British passport, but has chosen to play for the Rep. of Ireland. You seem to be hell bent on obscuring these facts and pursuing a heavily biased argument for its own sake. Do you seriously think it's acceptable to just list McCarthy as Irish without any of the context? Do you understand that this would be confusing to a reader who has no knowledge of McCarthy's background (you must)? Blankfrackis (talk) 12:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually he holds an irish passport not a British one! Where does that leave your argument?--Vintagekits (talk) 12:50, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Got any evidence of that? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
He has to produce it to play for FAI.--Vintagekits (talk) 13:22, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You can hold two passports y'know guys - I have a British one and a Canadian one. GiantSnowman 13:26, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am entitled to two myself - doesnt mean i have two. He must have an Irish passport to play for Ireland. He doesnt necessarily need or ever to have had a British passport - unless you have evidence that he does/did. Just because he is eligible for wan doesnt mean he has wan!--Vintagekits (talk) 13:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not doubting that McCarthy holds an Irish passport at all - as you correctly assert, you must hold a passport of country X in order to play for country X at international level. However, it would be naive to say that someone who was born in Scotland to Scottish parents and has lived there for 18 years never got a British passport. GiantSnowman 13:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It wouldnt be naive at all - it fact I think it naive of you if you consider it improbable or impossible. I have family members born and bred in other countries that do not hold and never have held a passport for the country of their birth and only ever have held an Irish passport. McCarthy was entitled to have an Irish birth from the moment of his birth and I dont see any reason why it would be impausible to think that he had one - especially as he has been playing for Ireland since he was little more than a child.--Vintagekits (talk) 13:50, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And irrelevant anyway. Citizenship is what enables one to get a passport, not the other way around. McCarthy in indisputably a British citizen, so the colour of his passwort does nothing to negate Blankfrackis's premise. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:51, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh now its irrelevant - keep digging! So now it doesnt matter that he has an Irish passport and may never had a British wan? Give it a rest will ya, yer bloody embarassing yerself son! In Birmingham he's Irish! In London he Irish! In Dublin he's Irish! In Cork he's Irish! But in Glasgow the bigots reign supreme. --Vintagekits (talk) 14:06, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Vintagekits, just calm down. Comment on content, not the contributor i.e. refrain from calling people bigots please. GiantSnowman 14:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Who am I calling a bigot?--Vintagekits (talk) 14:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Chris. GiantSnowman 14:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Eh? When? Cop on - now you are just being stupid as well as ill informed.--Vintagekits (talk) 14:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you weren't being offensive, then please explain to me what you meant by "in Glasgow the bigots reign supreme" when arguing with a Scottish editor. GiantSnowman 14:35, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Does this mean I have to educate you as well as debate with you? Are you aware of the bigotted sectarian abuse that McGeady and McCarthy get from supporter of a certain Glasgow club?--Vintagekits (talk) 14:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In Scotland, sectarian abuse flows both ways. But I don't see what the stupid opinion of one bigoted tabloid journalist (going on the Daily Record link you posted below) has to do with what Chris has said. GiantSnowman 14:47, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Does it? Funny I didnt see Brian McLean getting much stick. Juan Guy?--Vintagekits (talk) 14:51, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Are you honestly trying to argue that Celtic fans have never once abused Rangers players or fans for being Protestant? Seeing as I've been shouted by some yobs in Celtic shirts for wearing a Rangers shirt, they do. But we are unbelievably off topic now, so let's end this now, and get back to the nationality issue please. GiantSnowman 14:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(outdent) This isnt really the topic we are discussing but does highlight some of the complexity of the issue. I think you will find the much of the "religious stuff" is one way. Back to nationality - it's simply impossible to overcoming the fact that he is Irish - legally, ethnically and by his own choice "footbally" - however, one cannot ignore the fact that he was born in Scotland. No one is trying to do that - this fact is clearly stated in the first line of the article immediately after his name - its also in the infobox and again in the main body of the article. --Vintagekits (talk) 15:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Again, the question is of the specific wording used. To spin your words around, even if it is taken that McCarthy is "Irish" on the given grounds, it is "simply impossible" to overlook that through his birthright he is Scottish and therefore a British citizen. However, in the interests of avoiding some weird construction like "Scot-Irish" or "Irish-British", we should simply state exactly what the circumstances are without having to resort to labels. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:25, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Jesus was born in a stable - that doesnt make him a horse. I have provided multiple sources to state that he is Irish. In a football sense and well as legally and ethnically he is Irish - thats a fact - plain and simple. You state that "through his birthright he is Scottish and therefore a British citizen" - excuse my French - that is bollocks. Like I have said he may be eligible for British citizenship but you have not provided any evidnece that he has done so and as I have pointed our many 2nd and 3rd gen Irish never get a passport for their country of birth even in they are entitled to.--Vintagekits (talk) 16:11, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For McCarthy to have been Irish at birth that would have to have been applied for: Irish citizenship by descent is not automatic. (and indeed, if he'd been an Irish citizen all along then there would never have been any media coverage of his decision to play for Ireland, which makes this an even more unlikely proposition.) Have you any evidence that this was applied for? It's a new claim, so the onus is on you to back it up. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 16:51, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What absolute and utter nonsense. Why would there be coverage of McCarthy's Irish nationality prior to it becoming an issue. We only have proof that he is Irish - what evidence do you have to he had dual or maintains dual nationality. --Vintagekits (talk) 19:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It has never been stated anywhere, to my knowledge, that McCarthy had Irish nationality at birth. The presumption that he is Scottish is the basis of the whole media angle on the issue. Compare and contrast to, say, Andrew Driver, another promising youngster who has spent most of his life in Scotland but has no Scottish lineage; the media specifically picked up upon his lack of Scottish nationality before he'd ever played a competitive game for either Scotland or England, and it was again an issue when he played for Scotland schoolboys. People born in Scotland to Scottish parents are by definition British citizens, ergo the onus is on parties challenging that to explain why it is not the case. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 21:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"We only have proof that he is Irish - what evidence do you have to he had dual or maintains dual nationality."
The fact that he was born in Britain to British parents makes him a British citizen. You don't have to apply for British citizenship, as you do with Irish citizenship via descent, it's granted at birth. Why this even needs to be stated is beyond me. You seem to be confused with the issue of passports - he may or may not have applied for a British passport whilst living in the country, but you can be a British citizen without holding a passport (millions of British people do not have passports).
I think it's blatantly obvious that there is only one dissenting party in this debate (vintagekits) and that he/she is more interested in provoking some completely irrelevant debate about "the bigots in Glasgow" than arriving at a neutral introduction to the article which explains precisely who James McCarthy is to someone with no prior knowledge of his background. He is a British citizen who has applied for an Irish passport in order to play for the Republic of Ireland. End of debate.
Hi Anonymous IP, have you got evidence to back that you?--Vintagekits (talk) 12:02, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Have I got evidence that he was born in Britain to Scottish/British parents? That's not even up for debate. It's well documented that he was born in Scotland (something you don't dispute) and that his parents were Scottish/British citizens. See this article - [1] and a hundred others which mention the fact.
"McCarthy, a Scottish boy born to Scottish parents of Irish ancestry, has now played at successive levels for Ireland..."
I mean, seriously, if his parents were Irish citizens why do you think his grandparents keep getting discussed? There's absolutely no question that his parents were British citizens, that he was born in Britain and that, by virtue of these two facts, he is therefore a British citizen (and potentially Irish as well). The question of whether he holds a British passport is completely irrelevant to his citizenship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.158.94 (talk) 12:10, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Opinion by GiantSnowman

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I believe the info should read something like this:

James McCarthy is a professional footballer who plays for Wigan Athletic. Although born in Scotland, McCarthy is eligible to represent the Irish football team at international level, and he has earned caps for the Irish under-21 side.

Or something similar. GiantSnowman 11:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I see no reasonable objection to this wording: it's neutral, objective and sticks to the facts. Blankfrackis (talk) 12:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Without doubt not "indeed". How many times does it have to be stated that he was born in Scotland. It already says it in the lede and in the infobox and in the main article. Ok, ok! we get it - he was born in Scotland - we know that unashamed rampant bigots in Scotland have a problem with him and McGeady being Irish but thems the facts!--Vintagekits (talk) 12:50, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unless you are arguing that those opposed to your proposed wording are "unashamed rampant bigots" then I don't see what that has to do with anything. Are you willing to admit that there are other arguments for not labelling McCarthy as unambiguously "Irish" than bigotry? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In Scotland - its the main reason. Like I said above it's stated three times in the article that this Irishman was born in Scotland - I see no reason to have it a fourth.--Vintagekits (talk) 15:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You didn't answer the question. Are you prepared to accept that there are arguments other than bigotry for avoiding the unambiguous use of the term "Irish" here, and furthermore that those arguing with you are not doing so because they are bigots? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
None that are valid enough to over-ride my points above. How many times do you think it is enough to state that he was born in Scotland in the article?--Vintagekits (talk) 15:44, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The same amount of times you mention the fact that he is Irish - that's a fair compromise, n'est pas? GiantSnowman 15:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So it is already mentioned once in the first sentance so that should be enough then eh!?--Vintagekits (talk) 16:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As long as both birth-place (Scotland) and sporting nationality (Irish) are given equal weight, I don't care if it mentioned 1 time or 100 times. GiantSnowman 16:17, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Currently how many times does it stated that he was born in Scotland in the first sentance and how many times does it say he is Irish?--Vintagekits (talk) 16:48, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't care how many times it says it now - the point of this discussion is to work out what it should say! GiantSnowman 16:51, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Answer the question!--Vintagekits (talk) 16:52, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My, my, who's being aggressive now then, eh? The introduction of the article mentions Scotland once and Ireland once. No problems, surely, even for you? GiantSnowman 16:57, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That he was born in Scotland is not disputed. A more accurate comparison would be to the number of times it is mentioned that he has opted to play for Ireland, or to compare the number of times he is referred to as "British" to the number of times that he is referred to as "Irish". In my opinion both of those ratios should be 1:1, or 0:0 in the latter case. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 16:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Question by RomaC

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Hello chaps wading in here as a totally uninvolved editor. Forgive my ignorance re: this question -- poked around a bit and found conflicting sources on whether or not McCarthy holds dual citizenship. Or, maybe put it this way -- does he hold or would he be eligible to hold both British and Irish passports. Has this been resolved? RomaC (talk) 04:09, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As of yet, no sources have been provided which give any indication of his actual citizenship. We've been going entirely by inference, which isn't the best way to do things. Theoretically, he is British by birth and can claim Irish citizenship by descent, but we have no actual proof that he is either. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 07:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As another uninvolved editor, I would therefore support your suggestion at the top which is to state only: 'exactly what the facts are: that McCarthy was born in Scotland, but has chosen to play for the Republic of Ireland'. Martin Hogbin (talk) 16:42, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think everyone is in agreement save for one party (Vintagekits). Yet, it seems the introduction was again changed to the "Scottish born Irish footballer" line. Vintagekits' argument was thoroughly addressed by the anonymous poster above - an argument which Vintagekits has failed to provide any response to for the best part of a month - and every other contributor is in agreement. There really is no more debate to be had and any change back to the "Scottish born Irish footballer" introduction should be immediately reverted. Blankfrackis (talk) 12:32, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Everton

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Move to Everton has been completed. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/8903847/transfer-news-everton-sign-james-mccarthy-and-romelu-lukaku — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.157.131 (talk) 22:43, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 6 October 2016

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa (talk) 16:03, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

– He gains far more views than all the other James McCarthys combined.[2] Unreal7 (talk) 15:22, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Provided now. Unreal7 (talk) 15:28, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per the second half of the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC guideline. All those James McCarthys including "The British governor, Sir James McCarthy, was defeated by the Asante army, committed suicide, and his skull was sent back to the Asante capital Kumasi where it was used as a drinking cup" In ictu oculi (talk) 21:22, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't understand a word of that, IIO. Unreal7 (talk) 15:06, 8 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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