Talk:John Rudge/GA1

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Nominator: EchetusXe (talk · contribs) 21:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Reviewer: Tbhotch (talk · contribs) 19:23, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Upcoming review.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality (prose is clear and concise, without exceeding quotations, or spelling and grammar errors):

   Occasional typos

   B. MoS compliance (including, but not limited to: lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists):

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources (including an appropriate reference section):

   The article is based on an autobiography.

   B. Citation of available and reliable sources where necessary (including direct quotations):

   C. No original research:

   D. No copyright violations:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   edit wars, multiple edits not related to the GAN process, etc. (this excludes blatant vandalism):

6. Does it contain images (or other media) to illustrate (or support) the topic?

   A. Images (and other media) are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images (and other media) are provided where possible and are relevant, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

@EchetusXe: Hi. Sorry for the wait. As soon as I complete Pure Japanese's review I'll continue with this one. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Lead

• "Rudge began his playing career at Huddersfield Town in November 1961 but" → "Rudge began his playing career at Huddersfield Town in November 1961, but"
• "In January 1969, he joined Torquay United and twice finished as the club's top-scorer before he moved" → " In January 1969, he joined Torquay United and twice finished as the club's top scorer before he moved"
• "He helped the club to win promotion of the Third Division in 1973–74 before departing for AFC Bournemouth in March 1975. → "He helped the club win promotion to the Third Division in 1973–74 before departing for AFC Bournemouth in March 1975."
• "However, he was sacked in January 1999 and subsequently was appointed" → "and subsequently appointed"
• "subsequently appointed director of football at their rivals of Stoke City" → "subsequently appointed director of football at their rivals, Stoke City"

Early life

• "Marie ran a fruit and veg stall" → vegetable
• "at Wolverhampton market" → Market is a proper noun here
• "Rudge married Dellice, who he" → whom

Huddersfield

• "Rudge was a right-footed forward, who had pace" → "Rudge was a right-footed forward who had pace"
• "However, Rudge had great difficulty in establishing himself" → "difficulty establishing himself"
• "in the first-team due" → "in the first team due"
• "prominent striking partnership" → "prominent and striking partnership"

Carlisle

• "became highly influential on Rudge" → for Rudge
• "In the meanwhile," → "In the meantime," or meanwhile

Torquay

• You use the word "find/found" three times here
• "He had been part of a swap deal which saw Robin Stubbs" → "He had been part of a swap deal that saw Robin Stubbs"

Bristol

• "Manager Don Megson dubbed Rudge as "a second Andy Lochhead", " → Rudge "a second Andy Lochhead",
• "They also" → The pronoun doesn't match any previously mention group of people
• " He did though manage to feature" → He managed

Bournemouth

• "He operated a fruit and veg stall on Christchurch market" → "He operated a fruit and vegetable stall on Christchurch Market.

• @EchetusXe: I'll pause at the moment and continue tomorrow. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 03:06, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Okay, thank you. I have implemented those changes.--EchetusXe 07:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Y

Coaching career

• "moved away from the first-team and" → "moved away from the first team and"
• "though was rejected by Kettering" → "though he was rejected by Kettering"

1983–85

• "player Tommy Gore noted "the players" → "player Tommy Gore noted, "the players"
• "Kevin Young on loan, and switched" → wrong comma
• "with a salary of £11,000-a-year" → "with a salary of £11,000 a year" or "with a £11,000-a-year salary"
• "for a tribunal set figure of £66,666" →  "for a tribunal-set figure of £66,666"

1985–91

• "with Porter that he said "he" → "with Porter that he said, "he"
• "in the first-team for" → "in the first team for"
• "in the FA Cup which" → "in the FA Cup, which"
• "Before the cup run there" "Before the cup run, there"
• "as both Hazell and Sproson was injured" → were
• "Aspin would play" → he would play
• "both league games ended as draws" → "both league games ended in draws"
• "over the next five years the Dutchman become a key player" → "over the next five years, the Dutchman became a key player"

1991–99

• "with ligament damage, Nico Jalin" → "with ligament damage, with Nico Jalin"
• "campaign was goalkeeper Paul Musselwhite, signed" → "campaign was goalkeeper Paul Musselwhite, who signed"
• "Taylor would finish as top scorer on 19 goals" → "Taylor would finish as the top scorer with 19 goals"
• "final 2–1 over Stockport County, but losing" unneeded comma
• "as the clubs "epic" season ended" → "as the club's "epic" season ended"
• "In 1993–94 the club gained promotion in second place on 88 points" → "In 1993–94, the club gained promotion to second place on 88 points"

@EchetusXe: I normally review the sources at the end but I read this: "writing in his autobiography...". Then I went to the ref section and saw that the book is cited 103/145 times. Autobiographies are primary sources. Reviewing similar examples, the overall opinion is that these primary sources are acceptable for non-controversial statements said by the subject about the subject, but secondary sources are still preferred, especially in biographies of living people. The question that arises is how much of what the book says was verified by Lowe. For example, "In all he made a profit for Port Vale of almost £5 million in the transfer market". Is this a statement by Rudge? Or was an investigation made by Lowe. If so, what is the source for that? Unfortunately, I don't have access to the book and I don't reject articles because of that, but using online searches, I cannot verify it ([1]). But I went to the publisher's website and it says," "About the author: John Rudge has collaborated with Simon Lowe to tell his life story." Then it explains who Lowe is, but it doesn't mention if he did any investigative work.

There is a free sample provided by the publisher here, however: [2], and the 35 pages available are written in the first person. If the full book is an autobiography, we cannot use it throughout the article (at most, early and personal life, his personal quotes, and things attributable to Rudge) because we don't write WP:autobiographies as "People will write overly positive impressions of themselves, and often present opinions as facts". Using this version, I see an example:

• "However, Rudge had great difficulty establishing himself in the first team due to the prominent strike partnership of Les Massie and Len White". From the book, "Alongside Les was senior pro Len White, a stocky, powerful striker who was coming to the end of a wonderful career in which he had become Newcastle United’s second-highest scorer". This is just an opinion of Rudge about Massie and White, so their "prominent strike partnership" is attributed to Rudge's point of view and it is not necessarily a fact. Unfortunately, this is an issue that cannot be fixed easily and promptly. I'll have to quickfail this nomination because it cannot meet the GA criteria point 2B: reliable sources are cited inline since Rudge is not necessarily a reliable source.

If you feel this is an error, you may re-nominate it. If you'd like to discuss it further, you can ping me on the main talk page. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 05:24, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.