Talk:Judah (son of Jacob)

Birth

I removed the birthdate because they do not appear in the Midrash at all. mikey 16:31, 2 September 2006 (UTC) The tribe of judah, which is my tribe. I think that providing your readers with all the infor is a must. I myself thirst for the knowledge of my tribe and of the different trials and tribulations we encounter. Can you provide me with more? My email address is kittenhugs_81@hotmail.com

I removed the suggestion that there was ambiguity in Genesis 38:2 as to whether Judah's wife or father-in-law was named Shuah. Jzitt 10:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC) The Hebrew clearly uses the masculine form when it says "and his name was Shuah", as "ush'mo Shuah וּשְׁמוֹ שׁוּעַ," so it could only refer to the father-in-law. This is contrasted to Genesis 38:6, where it uses the feminine in saying of Judah's daughter-in-law, "her name was Tamar," as "ush'mah Tamar וּשְׁמָהּ, תָּמָר."

Confusing

"...however Biblical scholars view this as postdiction, an eponymous metaphor providing an aetiology of the connectedness of the tribe to others in the Israelite confederation[1]."

This can be described in much simpler terms that more people will understand. Possibly something like: Biblical scholars view this as a story made up to explain the connections between Jacob and the various tribes of Israel." (when you use the word 'postdiction,' it needs to be clearly defined. 'Post' in relation to what?)

"In classical rabbinical literature, the name is interpreted as just being a combination of Yahweh and a dalet (the letter d);"

Following the link to 'classical rabbinical literature,' the reader isn't given a clear picture of when this timeframe refers to. It would be better to say something like: "In rabbinical literature up to XXX CE (?), the name is interpreted..."

Not knowing much about this topic, I find the general layout of the article confusing, and the big words make me want to quit reading. Is it possible to summarize Judah's life at the beginning, before going into 'births and deaths'? What is the point to the article as it stands?

PS - The article states that Judah is interpreted to be Yahweh plus a dalet. According to http://www.sightedmoon.com/?page_id=119, this is impossible. The article needs to address this in more detail, with better citations. The Sotah reference given for this statement takes the reader to a page that doesn't shed any illumination onto the assertions in the sentence.

David —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.242.107.29 (talk) 22:18, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Yehudah is NOT a theophoric name

It is not a combination and YHVH and add 'odeh'. That is grammatically and linguistically impossible. It is from the future hoph'al and means "praised". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 01:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Really? I learned that it came from להודות... 96.41.249.21 (talk) 21:26, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

rename article

Please consider renaming this article Judah, son of Jacob as per Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Bible#standardized_way_of_naming_articles_for_biblical_persons. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 21:14, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Stone Throwing

Wow; Judah had a major league arm apparently. The stone's weight was roughly 1.5 lbs, and the claim is he threw it 265 feet. Its POSSIBLE he had a good throwing arm, here's why;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM7h6zoE-84

Watch what that boy does; to keep the flock in line he throws stones. If that's all you do all day, in addition to exercises akin to kettle bells

Skip to 45 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HsvSXXtBEE&feature=related

Skip 10 seconds, and watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5JOPhGNtfk

This is the goat breed, Judah would have been put in the care of;

http://www.agraria.org/caprini/derivatadisiria.htm

Translated into U.S. weight, the male will weight up to 120 lbs. Now, since that Italian goat farm has, likely, state of the art goat care equipment, as well as optimal nutrition, we can operate under the assumption that given the scarcity of food in the Levant, even in Judah's time, would mean that most of the goats he dealt with (the males) would have weighed between 90 to 110 lbs at most. Between throwing rocks all day, and ocassionally chasing the ocassional wayward goat, having to pick it up, and then carry it back to the herd, its entirely possible that the Hebrew patriarchs, were in fact very strong men.

They literally walked for miles, while lifting the equivalent of 100 lb kettle bells. Abraham himself was a goat herder, and both Arab and Jewish traditions agree, that Abraham was also very strong. Please look at the kettle bell videos, and observe, how the motion of the most basic kettle bell exercise is very similar to picking up a goat. Additionally, watch the video of the tibetan shepherd boy; if one of the things you do is throw stones all day, between having plenty of practice, and, ah, "working muscle integration" no doubt it made the man very, very strong. Anyone who worked as a goat herder would no doubt become strong; between the constant lifting, and the constant consuming of goat milk, their only source of food in addition to mutton. Between drinking nothing but goat milk, walking for miles, and eating nothing but meat, years and years of that, highly likely made the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and 11 of his 12 sons (excluding Joseph) very strong. Contrary to the popular depiction of Abraham, he would not have been a pot-bellied man; as a matter of fact the Hebrew patriarchs, were as far from "pot bellied" as any men could be.

Anyone here Jewish? Anyone here PATERNALLY descended from Isaac or Jacob? Obviously we can't all go to the middle east, and work as goat herders, BUT, there IS something we can do; take up kettle bells.

If you are truly Jewish, if you are truly Hebrew, PICK UP YOUR DAMN KETTLE BELLS. If our ancestors could put up with hundreds of swings of heavy weight (the goats), we should be able to do it too! Remember though be safe; work up to it! Alright, in all seriousness; to get a taste of what life was like for Abraham, here is a challenge to all Jews and Arabs, walk for roughly 7 miles, across very rugged terrain, and at the end of roughly every half mile, swing a kettle bell. Hey, have a friend follow you around in car; you Israelis think you're fit? You think you're tough? Try walking for miles, and ocassionally swinging, instead of a kettle bell then, an army sack packed with 100 lbs worth of soft weight, a simulated "goat." Pick it up, and swing it over your shoulder, every half mile, repeat.... Pick it up, and swing it over your shoulder, and then repeat.

Again, that is 100 lbs; not those wussy 40 lb IDF packs. So you paternal European ashkenazi Jews think you're strong? Go out and do the "abraham" workout, and see if you can pull it off! Okay okay I am gonna get serious now; people, ashkenazi Jews have done much damage to Hebrew culture, bringing their german bullshit to the middle east. We need to get back in touch with some of our eastern mediterranean roots doing REASONABLE things, such as kettle bells.

67.148.120.94 (talk) 10:39, 19 March 2010 (UTC)stardingo747

New layout

This article needed a huge layout modification. Meh. It is hard... convoluted with lots of non-neutral views... especially loads of references from the Book of Jasher? Come on. And you cant just copy and paste all sorts of content from the Jewish Encyclopedia site over to wiki... otherwise, what good is wiki? when you have the jewishencyclopedia.net ? This page needs lots more work than what I've already established. Jasonasosa (talk) 22:57, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Judah in Genesis

This is very poorly written. I won't read further so I can't speak to the following sections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.43.34 (talk) 01:39, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Poor Citations

Maybe I don't completely understand the Wikipedia citation guidelines, but this article is loaded with sloppy citations. Look at the section "Jewish Tradition" and the first subsection "Rabbinic commentaries". The secondary source "Jewish Encyclopedia" is cited about a dozen times, while the text itself cites the (far more relevant) primary sources. If the text cites the primary source, is it necessary to re-cite anything? And if so, why not re-cite the primary sources ALREADY MENTIONED rather than an intermediate secondary source like the Jewish Encyclopedia? Take "nevertheless, Judah killed several members of Jashub's army (42 men according to the midrashic Book of Jasher, but 1000 men according to the Testament of Judah)." Here we have an in-text citation of the "Book of Jasher" and another citation of the "Testament of Judah", which are both ancient sources that are publicly available from multiple editors/translators. Shouldn't these two sources be the references since it is actually where the information comes from? Am I the only one who sees a problem with crediting the Jewish Encyclopedia here? If there is another standard being used, I would like to know. Otherwise, I would like to go back and revamp all the article's citations. Zeppelin42 (talk) 14:28, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 19 July 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 21:04, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

---

• Judah (son of Jacob) → Judah
• Judah → Judah (name)

– Same as other famous biblical characters/names, like Jacob, Leah, Rachel, Abraham, etc. GordonGlottal (talk) 21:02, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink).  — Amakuru (talk) 12:19, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

• • The provided rationale does not seem rooted in Wikipedia policies & guidelines, and it appears that the requestor just performed an undiscussed move of Juda to Judah (name) to make way for this undiscussed primary topic grab. There is nothing in Wikipedia guidelines that says that "famous biblical characters" are automatically considered more important than other topics. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:37, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

    I've reverted the undiscussed move at 162's request. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 22:51, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

  • This especially needs discussion as Judah is not only the name of a biblical figure, but is the name of one of the twelve tribes of Israel as well as the name of an Israelite kingdom. Not uncontroversial by any means. Natg 19 (talk) 22:12, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
  • Pinging GordonGlottal. -Kj cheetham (talk) 08:41, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Per above comments, I don't think there's a primary topic here. Also, if the current base page is moved, it should be to Judah (disambiguation) as it covers more than just the name.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose There are many other Judahs. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:39, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.