Talk:Kingstonian F.C./GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Cloudz679 (talk · contribs) 17:05, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I will review this article according to the criteria. C679 17:05, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

• fn3 seems to be linking to the "honours" section on kingstonian.com, but I think this is a mistake. It's used as a reference over 40 times in the article, so it's important to be sure. C679 09:56, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Whoops, the page number should have been 3. I got this muddled on a sandbox page of mine vice versa as well. Thanks, Matty.007 12:56, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Lead and History sections

• In the first sentence, I would expect "is an English...which currently plays"
• Also in the lead, "The club plays at Kingsmeadow in Kingston-upon-Thames, which has been their home since 1989, when they left their original Richmond Road ground." there is a mix between singular and plural.
  • Fixed the two above. Sorry not able to do more, will have another look tomorrow. Thanks, Matty.007 12:56, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
• "Prior to the club being named Kingstonian in 1919, they had competed as Kingston & Surbiton YMCA, and also went by the names Saxons F.C., Kingston Wanderers F.C., Kingston-on-Thames A.F.C., and Old Kingstonians.
• "Kingstonian Football Club was founded in 1885 by the Young Man's Christian Association, and began competing properly in 1893 in the Surrey Junior Cup. There was a split in 1909 which damaged the club, but after period of quiet for World War I, the two clubs re-united and joined the Athenian League in 1919." seems to be that these two paragraphs could be merged, and the founding given more importance than the previous names.
  • Had a bit of a look at it. Thanks, Matty.007 19:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

• "Two years later, in 1898,[4] the YMCA felt that football was "increasingly violent and unsuitable for young Christian men", therefore changed the club's name to Saxons F.C. before the 1887–88 season began," the year 1898 doesn't seem to fit with the sentence. Also the quote needs attribution with an inline citation immediately afterwards.
  • Unaddressed comment. C679 20:11, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
    • I fixed it but was editing in two separate windows so must have accidentally removed it again. Fixed now. Thanks, Matty.007 17:48, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
• "At the club's annual general meeting, the secretary at the time, William G. Carn, proposed that the name became "one more identified with the town".[3]" When?
• " The club's first season as Kingston Wanderers in 1890 also heralded a change of home ground to the Fairfield Recreation Ground." links 1890–91, prose should reflect that.
• "In 1893, proposals to combine football clubs in Surrey succeeded, and Kingston was felt to be amongst the group.[3]" Don't understand this sentence
• There shouldn't be full stops after the club name, when the club name ends with a full stop, per MOS:CONSECUTIVE (many occurrences).
  • Are there? I only found one, doing Ctr+F '..' Thanks, Matty.007 19:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
    • For some reason, Ctrl+F doesn't seem to find things mid-word. try the search string "F.C..", there appear to be a few more. C679 20:11, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
• "In 1906, the club won the West Surrey League, a feat which was replicated in 1907 alongside a Surrey Senior Cup which was lost to Clapham F.C. 3–1." but they reached the final, right? Or was it just a match between two teams?
• "Their first re-united match" Their first match after unification
• "issues regarding their home ground resulted in them finishing bottom in the league, and being forced to apply to re-enter the league.[3]" the reference doesn't say they finished last because of their ground issues
• link "London Senior Cup" at the first mention.
• "the K's, depleted of the majority of their pre-war players, came last in a war time league.[3]" ref seems to suggest it wasn't a war time league but the first season after the war.
• "In 1955, Kingstonian's heaviest ever home defeat, 12-3, was given at the hands of Bishop Auckland F.C..[3]" wording could be improved here. Also the ref mentions it was also the record attendance, so could be a useful inclusion.
• "despite becoming professional in 1975, they were relegated to Division One in 1979." this links to the English top flight at the moment; clarify and update link.
• "renowned manager Geoff Chapple" why renowned?
  • Because he won stuff? Looking at User:Matty.007/sandbox/List of Kingstonian F.C. seasons for around 2000, they actually did quite well. Thanks, Matty.007 19:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
    • See WP:PEACOCK. If you want to emphasise how successful this manager had been, denote his achievements in the prose. C679 20:11, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
      • Removed word. Thanks, Matty.007 16:16, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
• "then nearly managed to reach the fifth round of the FA Cup in 2001." seems to be subjective. Better "reached the fourth round of the FA Cup..." also in the same part "fourth round, where they were drew with Bristol City" should be "were drawn with" or "met" Bristol City.
• "Khosla" is not introduced properly, seems to be two people? This link [1] seems to be relevent, and the article could be expanded to include its content.
  • Dear me, dark days when this is what football is. Thanks, Matty.007 19:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
• Does the Isthmian League have playoffs? I couldn't find mention of them at the Wikipedia page for the league, or at the league table referenced in this article.
  • Oh yes. Only this year, the Ks finished 2 and lost in the playoffs [2]. Thanks, Matty.007 19:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
• "replaced by Alan Dowson at the start of 2007 after a run of extremely poor results" maybe this can be quantified, looks a little POV as it is.
• "Under Dowson the club has stabilised and has seen an improvement in its fortunes including promotion back to the Isthmian Premier in 2009." not "has stabilised" and also sounds POV, try to make it seem more objective.
• "The team's current crest contains the motto "Palmam Qui Meruit Ferat", the motto of Nelson which translates as "Let he who merits the palm bear it", and is enscribed on the Britannia Monument." this is the last sentence in the history section and looks out of place. Could it go elsewhere? Also should be "inscribed" C679 17:20, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Yes, I seem to have put that there fairly randomly. Where to move it to though? I have done all the above, except where a comment was made which specifies my view/what I have done. Thanks, Matty.007 19:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
    • At Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Clubs, there is a suggestion to have a "Colours and badge" section, so it could go there if you can reference it. C679 20:11, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Second look

• "In 1893, proposals to combine football clubs which were in the same time succeeded, and Kingston therefore assembled their own team.[3]" this doesn't make sense now?
• "but in a replay lost the Junior Cup 2–1 to Chertsey F.C..[4]" is this junior cup a one-match competition? also "in a replay" at the end.
  • Source doesn't specify. Thanks, Matty.007
• "The club had a one-season foray into the London League in 1903[3] alongside the East and West Surrey League which they had been with since 1898,[4]" does this mean they played in two leagues at the same time?
  • I think so. Thanks, Matty.007
• "They had their most successful modern spell from 1923 up to the outbreak of World War II" modern seems to be a little subjective here.
• "the League was won in 1934 and 1937" why is this in the passive voice?
• The article (and reference) talks about turning professional, but the reference seems to imply semi-professionalism. If they were playing at the 6th or 7th level of football I can't see how it would have been a professional team. Is there any support from secondary sources regarding this?
  • They are semi-professional now, but they were in the football league for a few years. I don't know when they re-became semi-professional I'm afraid. Thanks, Matty.007
• Sam Page links to a footballer playing for Havant and Waterlooville, but the Sam Page at the club website arrived from Staines Town. Not the same one?
  • Good catch. Thanks, Matty.007
• Manager list is sorted but usually the chronological order is oldest first. Also question the relevance of having flag icons in that section.
• Awards and records is missing any kind of reference.
  • Will begin addressing others, but it is referenced, "Years[34]". The ref possibly should be positioned somewhere else, I felt there was most appropriate. Thanks, Matty.007 17:45, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
    • Yes, you're right. That's fine. So the comment was probably regarding the all-time top scorers in the sub-section above. C679 17:47, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
      • I started sourcing just now, but there is nothing backing up the goals of those players who are pre-war, pasted what I'd done at User:Matty.007/sandbox/Kingstonian F.C. but I had to remove one because of no data, and I realised that didn't really work. Thanks, Matty.007
• Regarding the honours, the article says IL Div 1 South 2007–08 but the ref says IL Div 1 2009. Is this the same competition?
  • Can't find any evidence of Div 1 South being won in that year. Where is the 2009 one? Thanks, Matty.007 13:46, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
• London Senior Cup tallies are not consistent (runners up)
• "Shirt sponsors and manufacturers" section is unreferenced. I would question the encyclopaedic value of such data.
• As a footnote, there is an awful lot of prose sourced to one reference. I will need to spot check for close paraphrasing separately, but will hold off until the above is addressed. Thanks, C679 20:11, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Cloudz679: replied to some, attempted fix of all except where specified. Thanks, Matty.007 13:46, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

The comment about Chapple is outstanding. C679 21:38, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Cloudz679: ah yes, changed. Thanks, Matty.007 16:16, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

• Sorry for the delay. The current squad doesn't exactly match the players at the reference, Most of the "Records" section lacks referencing. C679 07:12, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Cloudz679: odd, I suspect they must have updated it. Records is all referenced, but I added the ref at the end of each line. Thanks, Matty.007 14:16, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
• Hi and apologies once again for the delay. I looked for close paraphrasing concerns, but I have no concerns to report. A few notes on the prose however:
• Multiple instances of redlinking should be removed; the link should only exist in the first instance (East and West Surrey League, West Surrey League).
  • Done. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• The sentence in the lead "There was a split in 1909 which damaged the club, the clubs were called Old Kingstonians and Kingston-on-Thames A.F.C., but after period of quiet during World War I, the two clubs re-united and joined the Athenian League in 1919, named Kingstonian." seems a bit unwieldy.
  • Changed. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• The squad list is not ok at the moment, for example Alan Inns is in there twice, Adam Doyle is missing, etc.
  • Updated. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• Typo "statium"
  • Sorry, Crt+F didn't find anything. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "lost the Junior Cup 2–1 to Chertsey F.C. in a replay." source mentions losing the final
  • Mentioned. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "finishing runners up in the Surrey Senior Cup which was lost to Clapham F.C. 3–1." again the result was in the final, make that clear
  • The fact that they were runners up implies the final, but made explicit. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "but the rivalry forced both teams to improve." sounds a little POV
  • Changed. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "Kingstonian FC" or F.C.?
  • Should be F.C. unless before punctuation. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "However, the season was plagued with issues regarding their home ground, and a finish in the bottom half of the league, and being forced to apply to re-enter the league." needs rewording
  • Changed. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "the won the League" they won
  • Changed. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "the FA Cup fourth round, where they were drawn with Bristol City[7] before succumbing to a late winner in the replay." score?
  • Added. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "Kim Harris said that the owner Rajesh Khosla is" was
  • Changed. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "in February 2005 Khosla[10] stepped down as chairman, selling the club to Jimmy Cochrane, whilst making a profit.[9]" fn10 should be moved back in the sentence
  • Moved. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "The spit in 1908–09" split
  • Changed. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• "Kingstonian's heaviest ever home defeat, 12–3, was given" was recorded.
  • Changed. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• Can you add accessdate to fn19 and fn20
  • Done. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
• Typo in fn21
  • Changed. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Once those are fixed this article should be in a passable condition. Thanks, [[User:|C]]679 07:03, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Cloudz679: attempted fix of all. Thanks, Matty.007 11:35, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

• Statium is in the Saxons section, and FC needs to be F.C. like everywhere else. Thanks, C679 11:58, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Cloudz679: changed typo, Kingstonian FC is only in references or at end of sentences. Thanks, Matty.007 12:19, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
    • F.C. at the end of sentences, too. C679 15:25, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
      • At Wt:WikiProject Football I was told FC. or F.C. at the end was fine either way. Thanks, Matty.007 15:28, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
      • I believe the consensus at WP:FOOTY is consistency, which should be displayed here. All other mentions in the article of "football club" use the abbreviation "F.C.", end of sentence or not. Thanks, C679 06:41, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
        • Cloudz679: changed. Thanks, Matty.007 07:51, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
• Fantastic. All criteria are now met. Congratulations Matty.007 on a job very well done! C679 08:35, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Thank you very much for the review. Best, Matty.007 11:59, 20 July 2014 (UTC)