This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kutadgu Bilig article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Turkey Mid‑importance

	Turkey portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Central Asia Low‑importance

	Asia portal Kutadgu Bilig is part of WikiProject Central Asia, a project to improve all Central Asia-related articles. This includes but is not limited to Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Tibet, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Xinjiang and Central Asian portions of Iran, Pakistan and Russia, region-specific topics, and anything else related to Central Asia. If you would like to help improve this and other Central Asia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.Central AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Central AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Central AsiaCentral Asia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Anthropology: Oral tradition

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthropologyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthropologyTemplate:WikiProject AnthropologyAnthropology articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
	This article is supported by Oral tradition taskforce.

Comments

Untitled

Uigurische Sprachmonumente und das Kudatku Bilik. Uigurischer Text mit Transscription und Übersetzung nebst einem uigurisch-deutschen Wörterbuche und lithografirten Facsimile aus dem Originaltexte des Kudatku Bilik (1870)

https://archive.org/details/uigurischesprach00vmuoft

Uigurische Sprachmonumente und das Kudatku Bilik: Uigurischer Text mit Transscription und U ... (1870)

https://archive.org/details/uigurischesprac00ysgoog

Uigurische Sprachmonumente und das Kudatku Bilik: Uigurischer Text mit ... (1870)

https://archive.org/details/uigurischesprac00yusugoog

Uigurische Sprachmonumente und das Kudatku Bilik: Uigur. Text mit Transscription u. Übers. Nebst e. Uigur.-dt. Wörterbuche u. Lithograf. Facs. Aus d. Originaltexte d. Kudatku Bilik By Ármin Vámbéry

http://books.google.com/books?id=bOZCAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA9&dq=abhandlung+die+sprache+und+schrift+uiguren&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gis3U_3uBqvmsATFk4LoAQ&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=abhandlung%20die%20sprache%20und%20schrift%20uiguren&f=false

Uigurische Sprachmonumente und das Kudatku bilik: uigurischer Text mit Transscription und Übersetzung nebst einem uigurisch-deutschen Wörterbuche und lithografirten Facsimile aus dem Originaltexte des Kudatku bilik By Yūsuf (khāṣṣ-hājib), Ármin Vámbéry

http://books.google.com/books?id=WukGAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA9&dq=abhandlung+die+sprache+und+schrift+uiguren&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gis3U_3uBqvmsATFk4LoAQ&ved=0CGMQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=abhandlung%20die%20sprache%20und%20schrift%20uiguren&f=false

Kutadgu Bilig

https://archive.org/details/KutadguBiligIMetinResidRahmetiArat

https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22yusuf+has+hacib%22

08:35, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Kutadgu Bilig. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:24, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why

Why i can't add uyghur translation of texts of Qutadghu Bilig? SatukBughraKhan (talk) 19:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@SatukBughraKhan:, thanks for taking the advice to discuss this issue here, in the talk page. Your respective edits were reverted for the reason that they appear to promote a particular point of view as per WP:NPOV, giving undue weight to nationalist viewpoints. Relating Balasaguni to present-day Uyghurs solely because he allegedly moved in the latter part of his life to Kashgar and completed his most famous work there is basically erroneous. He is often regarded as either a Karakhanid or Central Asian (Eastern Turkic) poet and statesman in most secondary sources. Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire}

Absolute Nonsense. Many historians believe that most of modern day uyghurs of ET are direct descedents of karakhanids, and of the proves of that is their modern uyghur language which is lexically, grammaticaly and phonerically most closest to the Middle Turkic. And what the point of leaving turkish translation on the page?Turkish is even more distinguish from middle turkic of Balasaghuni than modern day uyghur or even uzbek. SatukBughraKhan (talk) 07:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you refrain from exclaiming such preposterous statements as absolute nonsense and do your research by taking a look at some secondary sources about Karakhanids first. In fact, your erratic claim such as Uyghurs being descendants of Karakhanids is totally misleading and is indeed POV pushing. We even happen to have an article about the history of Uyghurs, with a well sourced paragraph:

During the Islamic Turkification of Xinjiang, the Kara-khanids, under Sultan Satuq Bughra Khan, drove the Uyghurs out of Xinjiang. The name "Uyghur" reappeared after the Soviet Union took the 9th-century ethnonym from the Uyghur Khaganate, then reapplied it to all non-nomadic Turkic Muslims of Xinjiang.^[1] Many modern Western scholars, however, do not consider modern Uyghurs to be of direct linear descent from the old Uyghur Khaganate of Mongolia; rather they believe them to be descendants of a number of peoples, of which the ancient Uyghurs are but one.^[2]^[3]

Some Uyghur nationalists claim that they are descended from the Tocharians. Well-preserved Tarim mummies of a people with European physical traits indicate the migration of an Indo-European people into the Tarim area at the beginning of the Bronze Age, around 2,000 BCE. These people probably spoke Tocharian and have been suggested by some to be the Yuezhi mentioned in ancient Chinese texts, who later founded the Kushan Empire.^[4]^[5]

Even if we give a benefit of a doubt to the fact that a percentage of modern Uyghurs may have descended from Kharakhanid Turks, it doesn't make a Kharakhanid an Uyghur, just as the Dutch are not called Germans, or Romans are not called Italians, even though Italian language is the least divergent language from Latin (just as Uyghur from Middle Turkic (which is actually an umbrella term used by linguists to refer to a group of Karluk and Oghuz and related languages spoken during the Middle Ages). Replying to your second question, the Turkish translation stands there for the reason that Turkish is the most widely spoken Turkic language among the existing ones, so it's logical to employ it for comparison with other Turkic languages, including the extinct ones. Regards, Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire}

References

^ Ildikó Bellér-Hann (2007). Situating the Uyghurs between China and Central Asia. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. p. 32. ISBN 978-0-7546-7041-4.
^ Susan J. Henders (2006). Susan J. Henders (ed.). Democratization and Identity: Regimes and Ethnicity in East and Southeast Asia. Lexington Books. p. 135. ISBN 978-0-7391-0767-6. Retrieved 9 September 2011.
^ James A. Millward; Peter C. Perdue (2004). "Chapter 2: Political and Cultural History of the Xinjiang Region through the Late Nineteenth Century". In S. Frederick Starr (ed.). Xinjiang: China's Muslim Borderland. M. E. Sharpe. pp. 40–41. ISBN 978-0-7656-1318-9.
^ Millward, James A. (2007). Eurasian Crossroads: A History of Xinjiang. Columbia University Press, New York. p. 14. ISBN 978-0-231-13924-3.
^ A. K Narain (March 1990). "Chapter 6 – Indo-Europeans in Inner Asia". In Denis Sinor (ed.). The Cambridge History of Early Inner Asia. p. 153. ISBN 978-0-521-24304-9.

Why are you reverted my edits in Yusuf Balasaghuni page?

Why are you reverted my edits in Yusuf Balasaghuni page?I just added translation in modern uyghur language that most closest to the language of turkic of Balasaghuni rather than modern Turkish. Also there is a many mistakes in transliteration of middle turkic text that written turkish style where there is no sounds like "Q" ("Қ") and because of that some words are written wrong like "Kamuğ" (it suppose to be a "Qamuğ")

So i leave my uyghur translation here:

Modern Uyghur Latin translation:

Xuda ati birle sözüm bashladım, töreltken, östürgen, kechürgen izim

Tola medhi birle tümen ming sena, qadir bir Xudagha, anga yoq pena

Qongur yer, yashıl kök, kün, ay birle tün — yaratti zaman, waqit, mexluq we kün.

U xalap yaratti, yaraldi pütün, u birla dédi "bol", bar oldi pütün.

Bu barche yaralghan mohtajdur anga, igem sen bihajet, yoq hemrah sanga.

Ay qadir we menggü bihajet Bayat, séningdin bölekke yarashmas bu at.

Ulughluq sanga hem büyüklük sanga, seningdin bölek yoq sanga tur tenga.

Ey bir sen, birikmes sanga bashqa bir, burun sen jimidin, jimidin axir.^[1]

And one thing a want to mention, what is you definition of "central asian" (or "eastern turkic"), what is that?Who is this in your opinion?Did you even know that modern day uyghur language is also was called "Eastern Turki" by scholars? SatukBughraKhan (talk) 08:06, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I do not support keeping the Turkish trans. either but this (about modern uyghur language that most closest to the language of turkic of Balasaghuni) is riduclous argumentation. TrangaBellam (talk) 11:33, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Clarified at 12:50, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

^ Yusup Has Hajip. قۇتادغۇ بىلىك (Qutadghu Bilik). p. 44.

[1] Ildikó Bellér-Hann (2007). Situating the Uyghurs between China and Central Asia. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. p. 32. ISBN 978-0-7546-7041-4.

[2] Susan J. Henders (2006). Susan J. Henders (ed.). Democratization and Identity: Regimes and Ethnicity in East and Southeast Asia. Lexington Books. p. 135. ISBN 978-0-7391-0767-6. Retrieved 9 September 2011.

[xinjiang-3] James A. Millward; Peter C. Perdue (2004). "Chapter 2: Political and Cultural History of the Xinjiang Region through the Late Nineteenth Century". In S. Frederick Starr (ed.). Xinjiang: China's Muslim Borderland. M. E. Sharpe. pp. 40–41. ISBN 978-0-7656-1318-9.

[4] Millward, James A. (2007). Eurasian Crossroads: A History of Xinjiang. Columbia University Press, New York. p. 14. ISBN 978-0-231-13924-3.

[5] A. K Narain (March 1990). "Chapter 6 – Indo-Europeans in Inner Asia". In Denis Sinor (ed.). The Cambridge History of Early Inner Asia. p. 153. ISBN 978-0-521-24304-9.

[6] Yusup Has Hajip. قۇتادغۇ بىلىك (Qutadghu Bilik). p. 44.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[1]