Talk:Liberland

This page is lacking some context

First of all, this page does not mention the MoU with Somaliland, and simply implied that they communicated. It has been confirmed an MoU was signed between the two, and you could arguably say Liberland got recognition from Somaliland due to what the MoU actually said. The quote on the legal document was

"IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the undersigned, being duly authorized thereto by their respective Governments, have signed this Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of Republic of Somaliland and the Government of the Free Republic of Liberland on above stated cooperation."

The reason this could be seen as recognition is because the "above stated cooperation" was stated to be between two countries, twice.

"Today we will sign the Memorandum of Understanding between our two countries"

"We are looking forward to a longstanding cooperation between our countries."

Now, regardless of whether or not you consider this recognition, I think it's misleading to outright ignore this MoU. It should at least be mentioned. Another thing this page seems to be lacking is the exact statements of Javier Milei. He did not just "mention" Liberland, he outright recognized it as a sovereign nation multiple times. Now I'm not saying this means Liberland is recognized by Argentina, it's not, but it is recognized by Milei, which should be an important thing to note. And speaking of Milei, the page states that Liberlanders have failed to meet with him, which is false. Milei is actually a fan of Pol Victoria, who is an author, and who also just so happens to be the ambassador of Liberland. They both have met recently, although, their discussion remains a mystery as of now. TheIronIpad (talk) 13:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

What is the relevance of an unrecognised state signing a MoU with an unrecognised state? Beside that, do you have any independent sources? The Banner talk 13:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

The Transistria page mentions the mutual recognition it has with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, two other unrecognized states. Why even mention Somaliland at all if there will just be context left out?

Sources:

MoU source: The Free Republic of Liberland has successfully begun the mutual recognition process with the Republic of Somaliland | SomalilandInformer (archive.org)

Milei calling Liberland a nation source: Argentina’s leading presidential candidate Javier Milei supports Liberland (youtube.com)

Milie meeting with Pol Victoria source: Liberland: the micronation building bridges with Javier Milei | Buenos Aires Times (batimes.com.ar) TheIronIpad (talk) 14:50, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Here are the links TheIronIpad (talk) 14:51, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

https://web.archive.org/web/20171012150141/http://www.somalilandinformer.com/somaliland/the-free-republic-of-liberland-has-successfully-begun-the-mutual-recognition-process-with-the-republic-of-somaliland/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqsZhH3UaeU

https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/world/liberland-the-libertarian-micronation-building-bridges-with-javier-milei.phtml TheIronIpad (talk) 14:52, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Unrecognised entities 'recognising' each other is commonplace. It has no significance. As for Argentina, you have just linked a source that says "No state in the world currently recognises Liberland". Melei's personal comments don't constitute recognition, which is a formal process. And we aren't in the slightest bit interested in 'Liberland - Official' YouTube videos: please read Wikipedia:Reliable sources. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:04, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I never said Argentina recognizes Liberland. I actually said the opposite. Please do not put words in my mouth. I simply said Milei does. Here was my exact quote:

"Now I'm not saying this means Liberland is recognized by Argentina, it's not, but it is recognized by Milei, which should be an important thing to note."

For a more reliable source on Milei's claim, here you go: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ohfhaoJ946s

Now, unrecognized entities recognizing each other is commonplace, however the page says there was no effect between Liberland and Somaliland's discussions which is objectively false. Either remove that statement or add the whole context. TheIronIpad (talk) 15:11, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

If you wanted an actual article on Milei's claim, there is one for that as well

https://www.pagina12.com.ar/717983-el-general-ancap-en-guerra-contra-el-estadoBold TheIronIpad (talk) 15:17, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

'Recognised by Melei' is a meaningless phrase. States recognise each other - a formal process. Anything else isn't recognition in any legal sense. And please stop linking random crap from YouTube.

As for Somaliland, I'm not sure why we need to discuss mutual back-slapping between unrecognised entities at all - and if we do, we need better sourcing than those clearly engaged in promoting such entities. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:25, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I already linked an article that wasn't from YouTube, but I'll do it again. https://www.pagina12.com.ar/717983-el-general-ancap-en-guerra-contra-el-estado

As for Somaliland, why even mention it at all on the page if you are just going to leave out context? If you think it's unnessesary, just remove all mentions of Somaliland.

Regardless, the page is still objectively false considering it says Liberlanders have failed to meet up with Milei, when I have already linked proof that the literal ambassador of Liberland met up with Milei. TheIronIpad (talk) 15:27, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I've edited the article slightly to deal with concerns that it may be out of date, though I think it needs further work - in particular, we need to address the question as to why we need to discuss things that don't constitute recognition in a section on that topic. Liberland supporters have been making dubious claims to 'almost recognition' for many years, to no effect, and I see no reason why we need to assist them with this attempt to mislead. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:37, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree, although I don't think the recognition with Somaliland is misleading, considering both governments have posted it on their respective websites.

Here is an outside source for further proof: https://www.somtribune.com/2018/10/15/the-free-republic-of-liberland-has-successfully-begun-the-mutual-recognition-process-with-the-republic-of-somaliland/

We discuss the mutual recognition Transnistria and Atsakh once had, so I don't see why Liberland and Somaliland is any different. TheIronIpad (talk) 15:44, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I understand where you are coming from, but I do think the MoU between Liberland and Somaliland is somewhat important. It was a mutual recognition process in which both considered themselves countries twice. In other pages, Wikipedia discusses mutual recognition between unrecognized states. As I already mentioned, this is the case with Transnistria, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Artsakh as well. I know you said you wanted a source outside the Liberland and Somaliland governments, so here is another one that is independent from them. https://www.somtribune.com/2018/10/15/the-free-republic-of-liberland-has-successfully-begun-the-mutual-recognition-process-with-the-republic-of-somaliland/ TheIronIpad (talk) 15:40, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

If the MoU was 'somewhat important', it would be discussed by sources unconnected with either Liberland or Somaliland. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

MenaFN made an article on it, and they have no ties to either entity.

https://menafn.com/1097569279/The-Free-Republic-of-Liberland-has-successfully-begun-the-mutual-recognition-process-with-the-Republic-of-Somaliland TheIronIpad (talk) 16:05, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

That is copied directly from SomTribune, as it clearly states at the bottom of the page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:24, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Mentioned in The Times article here.

The man who invented a country and made himself president (thetimes.com) Miffedpenguin (talk) 07:29, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2024

Change History From: Jedlička is a member of the Czech Party of Free Citizens, which bases its values on the classical liberal ideology.[5] According to him, since no nation claims the land as its own, he could therefore could claim it using the terra nullius doctrine; the borders, he argued, respected both Croatia and Serbia's sovereignty.[14] He intended the state to be a tax-free haven. He had reportedly consulted Wikipedia's page regarding unclaimed territories, shown to him by his libertarian friend, in selecting a spot to proclaim the micronation.

To: Jedlička is a member of the Czech Party of Free Citizens, which bases its values on the classical liberal ideology.[5] According to him, since no nation claims the land as its own, he could therefore claim it using the terra nullius doctrine; the borders, he argued, respected both Croatia and Serbia's sovereignty.[14] He intended the state to be a tax-free haven. He had reportedly consulted Wikipedia's page regarding unclaimed territories, shown to him by his libertarian friend, in selecting a spot to proclaim the micronation. Marc Redwitz (talk) 18:52, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry - I can't figure out what the difference is between your "x" and your "y". What's changed? PianoDan (talk) 16:48, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

It read 'could therefore could'. I've fixed it. Thanks, Marc Redwitz. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:58, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2024

Add that Chinese entrepreneur Justin Sun, best known as the founder of TRON, was elected Prime Minister of Liberland on Sunday, October 6: https://liberland.org/news/598-liberland-congress-election-results Breadcrumb777 (talk) 17:25, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Without coverage in third-party sources, I can't see how this is of any significance. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Bowler the Carmine | talk 19:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)