Talk:List of Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas characters

List of "star names", according to the All Men Are Brothers translation of Water Margin

(Water Margin character (hanzi)/ Star name (kanji)/ Specter name)

1. Song Jiang (宋江)/ The Heavenly Chief Star (天魁星)/ Mephistopheles Yōma
2. Lu Junyi (盧俊義)/ The Heavenly Fiery Powerful Star (天罡星)
3. Wu Yong (呉用)/ The Heavenly Wise Star (天機星)
4. Gongsun Sheng (公孫勝)/ The Heavenly Idle Star (天間星)/ Acheron Charon
5. Guan Sheng (關勝)/ The Heavenly Brave Star (天勇星)
6. Lin Chong (林沖)/ The Heavenly Fierce Heroic Star (天雄星)/ Garuda Aeacus, Garuda Suikyō
7. Qin Ming (秦明)/ The Heavenly Star of Swift Courage (天猛星)/ Wyvern Rhadamanthys
8. Huyan Zhuo (呼延灼)/ The Heavenly Majestic Star (天威星)
9. Hua Rong (花榮)/ The Heavenly Heroic Star (天英星)/ Balron René
10. Chai Jin (柴進)/ The Heavenly Lofty Star (天貴星)/ Griffon Minos, Griffon Vermeer
11. Li Ying (李應)/ The Heavenly Star of Wealth (天富星)
12. Zhu Tong (朱仝)/ The Heavenly Star of Abundance (天満星)
13. Lu Zhishen (魯智深)/ The Heavenly Lone Star (天孤星)/ Behemoth Violate
14. Wu Song (武松)/ The Heavenly Wounded Star (天傷星)/ Mandrake Fyodor
15. Dong Ping (董平)/ The Heavenly Standing Star (天立星)/ Dryad Luco
16. Zhang Qing (張清)/ The Heavenly Swift Star (天捷星)/ Basilisk Sylphide
17. Yang Zhi (楊志)/ The Heavenly Star of Darkness (天暗星)
18. Xu Ning (徐寧)/ The Heavenly Guardian Star (天祐星)
19. Suo Chao (索超)/ The Heavenly Empty Star (天空星)
20. Dai Zong (戴宗)/ The Heavenly Speedy Star (天速星)
21. Liu Tang (劉唐)/ The Heavenly Strange Star (天異星)
22. Li Kui (李逵)/ The Heavenly Murderous Star (天殺星)
23. Shi Jin (史進)/ The Heavenly Lowly Star (天微星)
24. Mu Hong (穆弘)/ The Heavenly Penetrating Star (天究星)/ Nasu Veronica
25. Lei Heng (雷橫)/ The Heavenly Retreating Star (天退星)/ Genbu Gregor
26. Li Jun (李俊)/ The Heavenly Long-Lived Star (天寿星)
27. Ruan Xiaoer (阮小二)/ The Heavenly Dagger Star (天剣星)
28. Zhang Heng (張橫)/ The Heavenly Level Star (天平星)
29. Ruan Xiaowu (阮小五)/ The Heavenly Sinning Star (天罪星)/ Lycaon Phlegyas
30. Zhang Shun (張順)/ The Heavenly Broken Star (天損星)
31. Ruan Xiaoqi (阮小七)/ The Heavenly Vanquished Star (天敗星)/ Troll Ivan
32. Yang Xiong (楊雄)/ The Heavenly Gaol Star (天牢星)/ Minotaur Gordon
33. Shi Xiu (石秀)/ The Heavenly Intelligent Star (天慧星)
34. Xie Zhen (解珍)/ The Heavenly Savage Star (天暴星)/ Bennu Kagaho
35. Xie Bao (解寶)/ The Heavenly Weeping Star (天哭星)/ Harpy Valentine
36. Yan Qing (燕青)/ The Heavenly Clever Star (天巧星)/ Hanuman Tokusa
37. Zhu Wu (朱武)/ The Earthly Chief Star (地魁星)
38. Huang Xin (黃信)/ The Earthly Savage Star (地煞星)
39. Sun Li (孫立)/ The Earthly Brave Star (地勇星)
40. Xuan Zan (宣贊)/ The Earthly Noble Wise Star (地傑星)
41. Hao Si-wen (郝思文)/ The Earthly Heroic Star (地雄星)
42. Han Tao (韓滔)/ The Earthly Majestic Star (地威星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
43. Peng Qi (彭玘)/ The Earthly Courageous Star (地英星)
44. Shan Ting-gui (單廷珪)/ The Earthly Strange Star (地奇星)/ Frog Zeros
45. Wei Dingguo (魏定國)/ The Earthly Ferocious Star (地猛星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
46. Xiao Rang (蕭讓)/ The Earthly Learned Star (地文星)
47. Pei Xuan (裴宣)/ The Earthly Guileless Star (地正星)
48. Ou Peng (歐鵬)/ The Earthly Eminent Star (地闊星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
49. Deng Fei (鄧飛)/ The Earthly Folding Star (地闔星)
50. Yan Shun (燕順)/ The Earthly Strong Star (地強星)
51. Yang Lin (楊林)/ The Earthly Dark Star (地暗星)/ Deep Niobe
52. Ling Zhen (凌震)/ The Earthly Axis Star (地輔星)
53. Jiang Jing (蔣敬)/ The Earthly Gathering Star (地会星)
54. Lü Fang (呂方)/ The Earthly Aiding Star (地佐星)
55. Guo Sheng (郭盛)/ The Earthly Helpful Star (地佑星)
56. An Daoquan (安道全)/ The Earthly Clever Star (地霊星)/ [Anonymous Specter], Necromancer Byaku (who became the Heavenly Clever Star)
57. Huangfu Duan (皇甫端)/ The Earthly Beast Star (地獣星)/ Sphynx Pharaoh (who became the Heavenly Beast Star), Cait Sith Cheshire
58. Wang Ying (王英)/ The Earthly Least Star (地微星)
59. Hu San Niang (扈三娘)/ The Earthly Intelligent Star (地慧星)
60. Bao Xu (鮑旭)/ The Earthly Barbarous Star (地暴星)/ Cyclops Gigant
61. Fan Rui (樊瑞)/ The Earthly Silent Star (地然星)
62. Kong Ming (孔明)/ The Earthly Wild Star (地猖星)
63. Kong Liang (孔亮)/ The Earthly Ambitious Star (地狂星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
64. Xiang Chong (項充)/ The Earthly Flying Star (地飛星)/ Sylph Edward
65. Li Gun (李袞)/ The Earthly Walking Star (地走星)/ Gorgon Ochs
66. Jin Dajian (金大堅)/ The Earthly Cunning Star (地巧星)
67. Ma Lin (馬麟)/ The Earthly Clear Star (地明星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
68. Tong Wei (童威)/ The Earthly Forward Star (地進星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
69. Tong Meng (童猛)/ The Earthly Retreating Star (地退星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
70. Meng Kang (孟康)/ The Earthly Full Star (地満星)
71. Hou Jian (侯健)/ The Earthly Fulfilled Star (地逐星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
72. Chen Da (陳達)/ The Earthly Complete Star (地周星)
73. Yang Chun (楊春)/ The Earthly Hidden Star (地隠星)
74. Zheng Tianshou (鄭天壽)/ The Earthly Peculiar Star (地異星)
75. Tao Zongwang (陶宗旺)/ The Earthly Just Star (地理星)
76. Song Qing (宋清)/ The Earthly Elegant Star (地俊星)
77. Yue He (樂和)/ The Earthly Musical Star (地楽星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
78. Gong Wang (龔旺)/ The Earthly Quick Star (地捷星)
79. Ding Desun (丁得孫)/ The Earthly Hasty Star (地速星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
80. Mu Chun (穆春)/ The Earthly Suppressing Star (地鎮星)
81. Cao Zheng (曹正)/ The Earthly Haltered Star (地羈星)
82. Song Wan (宋萬)/ The Earthly Devil Star (地魔星)/ Alraune Queen (who became the Heavenly Devil Star)
83. Du Qian (杜遷)/ The Earthly Magic Star (地妖星)/ Papillon Mu
84. Xue Yong (薛永)/ The Earthly Obscure Star (地幽星)
85. Li Zhong (李忠)/ The Earthly Lonely Star (地僻星)
86. Zhou Tong (周通)/ The Earthly Empty Star (地空星)
87. Tang Long (湯隆)/ The Earthly Orphan Star (地孤星)
88. Du Xing (杜興)/ The Earthly Finished Star (地全星)
89. Zou Yuan (鄒淵)/ The Earthly Short Star (地短星)
90. Zou Run (鄒潤)/ The Earthly Corner Star (地角星)/ Golem Rock (who became the Heavenly Corner Star)
91. Zhu Gui (朱貴)/ The Earthly Prisoner Star (地囚星)
92. Zhu Fu (朱富)/ The Earthly Hoarding Star (地蔵星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
93. Shi En (施恩)/ The Earthly Hiding Star (地伏星)/ Worm Raimi
94. Cai Fu (蔡福)/ The Earthly Smooth Star (地平星)
95. Cai Qing (蔡慶)/ The Earthly Wounded Star (地損星)
96. Li Li (李立)/ The Earthly Serving Star (地奴星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
97. Li Yun (李雲)/ The Earthly Searching Star (地察星)/ Bat Wimber
98. Jiao Ting (焦挺)/ The Earthly Fierce Star (地悪星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
99. Shi Yong (石勇)/ The Earthly Ugly Star (地醜星)/ Deadly Beetle Sutando (who became the Heavenly Ugly Star)
100. Sun Xin (孫新)/ The Earthly Mathematic Star (地数星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
101. Gu Dasao (顧大嫂)/ The Earthly Shadowy Star (地陰星)/ Dullahan Cube
102. Zhang Qing (張靑)/ The Earthly Avenging Star (地刑星)/ [Anonymous Specter]
103. Sun Erniang (孫二娘)/ The Earthly Strong Star (地壮星)
104. Wang Dingliu (王定六)/ The Earthly Inferior Star (地劣星)/ Elf Mills
105. Yu Baosi (郁保四)/ The Earthly Mighty Star (地健星)
106. Bai Sheng (白勝)/ The Earthly Rat Star (地耗星)
107. Shi Qian (時遷)/ The Earthly Thieving Star (地賊星)
108. Duan Jingzhu (段景住)/ The Earthly Dog Star (地狗星)

(in case you're wondering, the alphabet spellings of the Specter names are from the Kanzenban version of the main series, the OVA artbook... or simply best guesses if I couldn't find anything in official merchandise)

As Onikiri noted, it might make sense for Zou Run's star ideogram to be translated to "horn" rather than "corner", and there are a few inconsistencies here and there (nothing serious, but it's a bit odd to translate "異" as "strange" and then as "peculiar", for example... stuff like that)... That being said, I, for one, still think we should use that list from now on (not just for this spin-off, but for all Saint Seiya series), as those are the only English translations from a published version of Water Margin I know of (of course, if someone here knows of another published English translation that mentions all 108 "star names"...).

Your thoughts? Erigu (talk) 00:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It's a great job you have done, and it will be useful for all Saint Seiya articles. Yes, as you note, we should be a bit careful with star names that might sound nonsensical, like the example you gave. But i think there wont be too much trouble and from now on, this list will help us as new or classic Specters appear in the manga. Thanks for the list. By the way, will you take care of modifying the stars where necessary in the LC article? If you wont, I can, or i can do it in the articles about the classic manga chracters. Also, something i liked a long time before this whole issue, was the Heavenly and Earthly translations for the ten and chi kanji. They sound a lot better than Celestial and Terrestrial and are more accurate. Should we keep Celestial and terrestrial, or substitute them for Heavenly and Earthly?Onikiri (talk) 01:19, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Wow, what a great work you've done. I really can use that for my own list too ;) One question. Do you know Marco Albieros work? Or Nicole Taizen site? Maybe if someone could add the "inofficial names" to the anonymous Specter so we know which one is meant? Otherwise it's a bit hard to tell which one is which star ;) I think Celestial and Terrestrial Specters should work, as they are named that way in most of the infopages and wikis around Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 06:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Not here amarashiki, only official stuff ;) --Refuteku (talk) 09:37, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Surely, the article page is official ;) But here is the disscussion board so I hoped I get the inofficial names so we can apply stars to specters. For now we only see anonymous. I can't tell which one is meant. Or maybe just the description of the Specter can be added? Thanks Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 10:42, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Another thing: shouldn't we separate as well the Terrestrial and Celestial Stars in the article and put them in alphabetical order? 'Cause right now, it's all mixed up and it can be very confusing to find the Spectre you want. Just a suggestion ImaginaryVoncroy (talk) 14:50, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I dont think we should, maybe what would be better, its separating them in Specters from Kurumada's manga and LC's original. But alphabetic, doesnt seem a good idea, would make it more confusing. Remember theyre first listed by their star, not their nameOnikiri (talk) 16:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I think currently their order is very random... The Gold Saints for example are listed by the position in Zodiac so it's easy to find them, but the Spectres have no order whatsoever and it's just looks very random. Even in this list, you see the Celestial stars coming first than the Terrestrial. In Kurumada's classic, the Terrestrial spectres seem to have a lower rank. The articles is mixing up everything and I do think there's a rank difference in Hades' army between the Celestial and Terrestrial Stars. You see relevant characters in Hades' army such as Viollete in the middle of spectres that only had brief appearances. We should at least separate the Celestial (the three Judges coming first) and Terrestrial stars and give some kind of order to them ImaginaryVoncroy (talk) 16:49, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, i think we should rearrange the list, with the terrestrial Specters first, then the Celestial. Lets wait for the others' opinionOnikiri (talk) 17:18, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually there is an order. They are listed as they appeared in the Manga. I agree we can make an own entry for the three judges. But all the others were just in the order they showed up. The person who made the entries always stayed true to this and when you look at it again you see that they are ok. But if you really want to bring them in order you should just separate Celestials from Terrestrials, nothing else would make sense. Ah yes, and when you doing it firstly the Celestials should show up as this whole article is depending on power. Gods, minor gods, judges, specters, skeletons (then the specter should be Celestials, Terrestrials as more powerful should come first *g*) 198.240.129.68 (talk) 06:51, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Ah ok, I can see. Since the last four entries they aren't in order anymore. But before we added the "only in shadow" Specters they were all listed in their appearance order ;) Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 08:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Erigu, can you specify the anonymous specters? Like wailing wall specter, cocytos specter, sanctuary specter? Or maybe with the inofficial names from Albiero? Because I really like to know which ones belongs to whom. If not here, you can also write me an e-mail? nuclearship@hotmail.com , this would be very nice ;) Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 12:01, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

OK, I've done it myself. While I was doing it I saw that you used the Terrestrial Strong Star two times and the Celestial Clever Star three times. Is that really correct? Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 07:05, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I hadn't noticed your comment.

I followed the translation which, as noted above, contains some inconsistencies (I count only one Heavenly Clever Star (well, plus the Earthly Clever Star turned Heavenly Star by Teshirogi) though). Erigu (talk) 22:22, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Unnamed Specters

Hi there. I added an article about the unnamed Specters. We allready have a similiar post for the Saints so I thought it could be of interest to list the unnamed Specters too. And about the synopsis. I'm just waiting for the new tankobon to arrive then I'll add all together and list the cloth schematics too. That ok? Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 09:17, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Even though I think it's extremely hard to count the number of spectres that have shown in Lost Canvas, you made some mistake in counting some spectres. Minos' troup in the manga did have 10 specters as in the anime:

- 2 were killed by steping into the field of demon roses;

- 4 were killed when Albafica used Royal Demon Rose's attack;

- 4 were killed by Bloody Roses along with Byaku.

Apart from this 10, we have Byaku and Niobe. Along with Minos, 13 specters invaded the Sancturary :) They're all in the manga ImaginaryVoncroy (talk) 01:41, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I see only 3 killed by Albafica using Royal Demon Rose. You can change the sight from left to the back of the Specters and you see there are the same guys. One was added in the Anime. I'm thankful for your correction but I only wrote Minos had 9(10) subordinates besides Byaku. Niobe was of Radas troops and Minos is no subordinate ;) Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 07:16, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

http://i37.tinypic.com/2ytxtah.png

Those were the spectres attacking Albafica before he used the Royal Demon Rose attack - you can count 4 heads there and I made a red circles on them. Just because in the next frame there are only 3, that doesn't deny the fact that in this one there are 4.

And you probably misled what I wrote: Minos in the manga did have 11 spectres in his trop (10 are unnamed and then there's Byaku), plus Niobe showed up - I don't know where I wrote Niobe was one of Minos' subordinates. 13 spectres invaded the Sanctuary, Minos included. The anime does not contradict the manga in these numbers. ImaginaryVoncroy (talk) 02:00, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

OK, I never took the fourth as an own Specter, I thought of it more of a extention of a surplice. Will change that. If I have mislead than sorry, but I thought I have understand what you said. I wrote the article and in there I only wrote how many Saints without a name have invaded Sanctuary. If you are then writing there were 13 Specters I have to assume you mean the article itself should be changed to this number. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense in this relation Amarashiki77.58.242.228 (talk) 14:24, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

There would be no need for me to change anything you wrote - that's your paragraph and I live that to you ;) As I said, it's extremely hard to count the unnamed spectres in The Lost Canvas, specially in the beginning, they're so many and most are unrecognizable. May I ask you something? In the boat arc, how many specters you saw in Aiacos' boat? I saw three, apart from Violet, and one of them was Tokusa - if you could post the images, I'd love that - just for curiosity :) Thank you ImaginaryVoncroy (talk) 00:12, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok, no problem man ;) Here are the links:

This is the guy we all know: http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o427/nuclearship/Direct%20Links/ss.jpg This fella was also seen in the first picture: http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o427/nuclearship/Direct%20Links/aaa-1.jpg And this one is a hard one, but you can clearly see that he is not a skeleton: http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o427/nuclearship/Direct%20Links/aa-1.jpg Regards Amarashiki 77.58.242.228 (talk) 19:37, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I'd still say this information is relevant for the wiki, as there is an obiously need around many people I think this information has it's right place. I mean we also added the unnamed Saints because there is an original and a prequel were many similiarties are done with purpose. And on the other hand, why deleting the unnamed Specters article but holding on the text with the original five bronzies? They aren't related to the story in any case but the text implies that they were in athena's army at this time. Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 09:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

In this case the unnamed saints should also be removed as they don't do anything in the plot.Tintor2 (talk) 14:35, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm also of the opinion that the article should be limited to protagonists, antagonists, whatever, but characters that actually matter to the plot. Erigu (talk) 17:26, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

So why are the five bronzies which didn't even participate in the battles still in the article? Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 12:52, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

They shouldn't be. I remember removing them once or twice already. Erigu (talk) 16:41, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Me too, but someone thinks he has to undo it every single time. And this person didn't even got here and made his point clear Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 11:46, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Could anyone of the administrator please block this entry so the person is not able to undo the changes anytime? Thanks Amarashiki 198.240.129.68 (talk) 08:33, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Dryad Luco

Hi guys. Shouldn't we add Luco to the Heavenly Specters? Amarashiki 198.240.212.2 (talk) 08:20, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Debate over Owl Partita?

The information about Partita needs to be changed. For instance, she doesn't have a destiny star because she's not a specter (Pandora confirmed it), so it's pointless to have her listed in the Heavenly Star list. She should be included instead in Athena's army list because it was proved she is the Athena's mythological owl and got back to life to help Tenma ir order to get his divine cloth. The only thing we don't know is her rank though ImaginaryVoncroy (talk) 22:43, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

54 times "Kurumada"

That's the number of times that Kurumada's name appears, saying almost the same in each character "He exist in Kurumada's manga", "he doesn't". Seriously, this is reiterative as hell, go and read pages from other Spin-offs characters (like Blood+ for example) and you´ll not read EVERY time something ridiculous like this. Plus, it's at the beginning of each character information, something that has nothing to do with the character personality or background. I think this might be written by a wiki newbie, this page needs to be fixed. Pandora, Thanatos and Hypnos information are well written for example, all the others must be like that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.172.67.3 (talk) 06:37, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Rasgado/Hasgard

Hi. I changed Rasgado to Hasgard because there is no way ハスガード (Hasugaado) be "Rasgado". The hiragana ハ is read as "Ha", not "Ra".