Talk:Medieval Louvre Castle

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Military history: Fortifications / European / French / Medieval

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Legend of the engraving

OK to add the year 1200 in the legend. I think important to add that the view is from the south, but also from the Seine river which is in the foreground.
It is not useful to speak about the date of reconstruction in this legend. And if you read the article (more accute than Commons), you learn that this reconstruction was not from ca. 1800 but from 1528 (demolition of the keep) to ca 1680 (demolition of the eastern and last wall under king Louis XIV to build the colonnade de Perrault). I named that progressive. --Tangopaso (talk) 17:44, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I se now you misunderstand me. I am not talking about the process of building the new Louvre. That has nothing to do with an engraving attempting to show the castle as it was in about 1200. I am talking about when the engraving was made. And that is given as "c. 1800" om Commons. Which is important, because a more modern reconstruction (of what the castle might have looked like around 1200) might be different, perhaps very different.

As for the Seine, the south side is by definition the Seine side and what else can it be that's seen in the foreground? I wanted to avoid making the legend too long. But OK, I leave it. But the time of the engraving has to be given. --151.177.62.193 (talk) 21:05, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@151.177.62.193: You are right ! I misunderstood. I agree : it is interesting to add the date of the engraving. The legend is now OK for me. Friendly yours. --Tangopaso (talk) 08:54, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 30 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. No such user (talk) 08:57, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Louvre Castle → Medieval Louvre – more correct name for the article's content which is about the Louvre building during the Middle Ages; "Louvre Castle" and "Louvre Palace" have been used as synonyms throughout the late Middle Ages and Early Modern Period. Boubloub (talk) 17:33, 29 July 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Adumbrativus (talk) 05:06, 7 August 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Muhibm0307 (talk) 04:50, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong idea : Louvre castle is the name for the fortress of the Louvre, now destroyed. Medieval Louvre is the special name today for the department in Louvre museum with the remnants of the fortress. On the french wiki, there are 2 different pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tangopaso (talk • contribs) 19:27, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per the good point made by Tangopaso. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:39, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! --Tangopaso (talk) 16:29, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Jack Frost (talk) 13:26, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The current title of this article, Louvre Castle, is a translation of the title of the French article Château du Louvre (also created by Tangopaso). However, to use the title "Château du Louvre" to refer exclusively to the Medieval Louvre is almost certainly incorrect, since the eminent French architectural historian Louis Hautecoeur [fr] also chose the term 'Château du Louvre' for the title of his important book about the architectural history of the Louvre under Louis XIV: L'Histoire des châteaux du Louvre et des Tuileries...sous le règne de sa majesté le roi Louis XIV.... OCLC 1071727817. The Medieval Louvre exhibit is called that because it shows the remains of the Medieval Louvre, i.e., the fortress of Philippe Auguste and the palace of Charles V. The latter is called the "Medieval Louvre" by David A. Hanser, Architecture of Paris, 2006, pp. 114–115; by Alain Erlande-Brandenburg, "Palais du Louvre", vol. 24, p. 161, in The Dictionary of Art, 1996; and Yvan Christ, who has a chapter entitled: "Vie et mort du Louvre médiéval (1190–1546)", pp. 9–10, in Le Louvre et Les Tuileries, 1949. I've not come across a lot of sources that refer to the Medieval Louvre as the Louvre Castle. --Robert.Allen (talk) 04:16, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose In France, you have either Louvre Castle for the medieval fortress, either Louvre Palace for the whole building, either Louvre medieval for the department of the collections and only this department. Use the term Louvre Castle (150 meters x 150 meters) for the Louvre Palace (app. 800 meters x 400 meters) which is 14 times larger is a non sense. I know that on Commons Medieval Louvre is used instead of the Louvre castle. I had a long discussion with Robert.Allen 6 years ago. He wanted absolutely that and I gave up. But I still think that it is an error and a non-sense. --Tangopaso (talk) 16:04, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the use of the term château in connection with the Louvre, User:Tangopaso and other editors may find it useful to read the beginning (esp. footnote 3) of Alexandre Cojannot's article "Mazarin et le 'grand dessein' du Louvre : Projets et réalisations de 1652 à 1664", Bibliothèque de l'École des chartes, Vol. 161, No. 1 (January–June, 2003), JSTOR 42958235. JSTOR can be also be accessed via Wikilib here. --Robert.Allen (talk) 19:01, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Sorry, Robert.Allen. But I can find also books where Louvre castle is only for the fortress. For example, in the OFFICIAL book of the museum Le guide du Louvre, Musée du Louvre Éditions Paris 2005, 479 pages, ISBN 2-35031-012-4, they use Chateau du Louvre only for the fortress. Palais du Louvre or Musée du Louvre for the whole building. I am 70 years old, made my first visit to the Louvre in 1965. I never heard the expression Louvre medieval or Medieval Louvre before visiting the department with the remnants of the fortress. But I give up. I have the card of the Amis du Louvre. I prefer to go to the museum (there are very few foreign visitors) than go ahead in these unuseful discussions. I will look at Chambre de parade de l'hotel de Chevreuse, Robert knows it. --Tangopaso (talk) 09:54, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User:Tangopaso's points are inaccurate. "Chateau du Louvre" has remained the most common name of the building throughout the 16th and 17th centuries if not longer, see e.g. https://collections.louvre.fr/ark:/53355/cl020525395 among much evidence. I believe "Medieval Louvre" is the most simple and apt option for the content of the article. As a compromise option, "Medieval Louvre Castle" would be acceptable as well. Boubloub (talk) 21:28, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Louvre médiéval is the title of a figure depicting the plan of the Louvre of Philippe Auguste and of Charles V on page 284 in Le Guide du patrimoine Paris, edited by Jean-Marie Pérouse de Montclos and published by Hachette in 1994. I have now cited four good sources for the name Medieval Louvre: two in English and two in French (with 'Louvre médiéval'). This appears to be the more common name and should be preferred for the title of this page. If someone wants to create an article on the exhibit, it can simply be called 'Medieval Louvre exhibit'. --Robert.Allen (talk) 09:16, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Château du Louvre

@Tangopaso: I have a question concerning the use of "Château du Louvre" (here translated into English as "Louvre Castle") to refer to the fortress of Philippe Auguste and the palace of Charles V. You cited "the OFFICIAL book of the museum" Le guide du Louvre (Musée du Louvre Éditions, Paris, 2005, 479 pages, ISBN 2-35031-012-4) and stated "they use Chateau du Louvre only for the fortress." I purchased a copy of this book and see on page 9 it refers to the building as "Une forteresse médiévale" ("A medieval fortress") but so far have looked in vain for text which supports your claim that they refer to it as the "Chateau du Louvre". Can you please tell me where in the book I can find that? Thanks for help. --Robert.Allen (talk) 01:40, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]