Talk:Mezz Mezzrow

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mezz Mezzrow article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as Low-importance).

Cannabis Low‑importance

	Cannabis portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cannabis, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cannabis on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CannabisWikipedia:WikiProject CannabisTemplate:WikiProject CannabisCannabis articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Jazz Mid‑importance

	Jazz portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jazz, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of jazz on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JazzWikipedia:WikiProject JazzTemplate:WikiProject JazzJazz articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Ethnic groups Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:

Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks:

Meta-tasks:
- Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project.
- Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups
Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution:
Start an article:
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests

Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

Point of View

I have added a POV check to this article. I do not know enough about jazz to correct the POV in this article, but I think it is clearly biased. It may be true that Mezzrow was "the least technically competent musician to have achieved recognition in the history of jazz." I don't know, but until this is cited, I think it is completely inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. I have not reverted to remove the comments, because the user who added this type of comments also added quite a bit of useful substance to the article. I do think that it needs to either be sourced or seriously edited.Lamontacranston 19:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

the Shadow - above - is correct about the unfairness of the characterization. it's my suspicion that Mezz has been relegated to the sidelines of jazz history specifically because of his involvement with marijuana....and his playing castigated for the same reason. based on three decades of listening to jazz, including the acknowledged greats, and listening to several of Mezz' albums, its my sense his ability was above-average. what would really be nice would be to have a contemporary recording artist of the jazz clarinet weigh in with a professional opinion.

Perhaps it is a matter of taste. I'd say he's a mediocre musician, who sometimes recorded with the greats (like Bechet and Ladnier) and did best when he mostly stayed out of their way, but occasionally rose to the occasion with some pretty good (though never brilliant nor virtuosic) stuff. My goodness, if Marijuana were an unforgivable stain to ruin a jazzman's reputation, how come Louis Armstrong is still in high repute, much less... (many names left out...) Mezzrow wrote one heck of a book and took part in a few significant recording sessions (at which he was not the best player present), but otherwise I'd rank him as no better than third tier or so. (Does anyone really consider him in the league of Goodman or Dodds?) Cheers, -- Infrogmation 02:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the marijuana was probably not a problem. After all, Mezzrow was the dealer for some of the most recognizable figures in jazz (if his autobiography is to be believed). Certainly he does not have a reputation as a great clarinet player (I think most people have never heard the name before), but I don't think it's fair to say he was "the least technically competent musician to have achieved recognition in the history of jazz." I hope someone with more expertize in this area can weigh in.Lamont A Cranston 14:37, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I edited the article to I hope be more in line with WP:NPOV. -- Infrogmation 21:57, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was not smoking marijuana that created the problem, it was openly dealing the stuff wherever he went and by special delivery around the world. I really think the Mezzrow page needs to be toned down and referenced. I need a page number for this Eddie Condon quote regarding Mezzrow to get me started -- (We Called It Music, London; Peter Davis 1948): "When he fell through the Mason-Dixie line he just kept going". I previously attempted to find another slanderous Condon quote referenced to "We Called It Music" but I couldn't find it anywhere. It would seem that reporters were constantly trying to reignite an old standing feud between the two musicans. - Uncle Mike 4.227.254.196 01:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Uncle Mike: the Eddie Condon quote "when he fell through the Mason-Dixon line he just kept going", is on page 163 of the Peter Davis (London) 1948 edition of "We Called It music"; the chapter heading is "The Blue Blowers". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.110.211.145 (talk) 02:23, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The comment (from me) about Mezzrow's incompetence is, indeed, a subjective opinion, but it's one that has been quite widely shared by other musicians over the years. I would add, that despite his very considerable technical limitations as a clarinetist (and even more so, on sax), at its best his playing had a considerable charm and sincerity, especially on a 12 or 16 bar bues, or a "blues with a bridge" that he specialised in.

I would also want to correct the main entry on two matters, where it is simply incorrect:

1/ Mezzrow's "first records" were not in 1933 but in 1927, with the Chicago Rhythm Kings (with Muggsy Spanier and Eddie Condon). The first recordings he made as a bandleader under his own name were in 1933.

2/ To the best of my knowledge, he had no contact with drummer Louis (or Luie) Bellson - it may be that whoever wrote this is thinking of drummer Gene Krupa, who did know and record with Mezzrow (Krupa is on the 1927 records) and who Mezzrow claimed to have helped whn the young Krupa was learning jazz drumming in the 1920's - Jim Denham 195.59.205.62 (talk) 15:33, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Race deal

He's one of the only people I'd ever heard of to "choose to identify as black" in that era. Or maybe in any era as people claiming to be black or American Indian or what have you is usually offensive in this era. I assume it was rather strange then too, but possibly just seen as a personal eccentricity. How accepted was he in the black community? Did they just see him as some crazy white wannabe? (Which maybe he was, I don't know)--T. Anthony 03:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was sort of a solidarity thing in that era. Mezzrow, like Johnny Otis later on, decided to identify as black. The "wigger" thing that seems to bother so many now basically started during the "beat" era with the likes of Norman Mailer and his racialist "White Negro" treatise.JBDay 20:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

File:Mezz mezzrow.jpg Nominated for Deletion

	An image used in this article, File:Mezz mezzrow.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Deletion requests June 2011 What should I do?
	A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 22:19, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Added references and links

Like others before me (see above), i found this page to be critical of Mezzrow's musicianship without actually citing his lengthy career in music. It was a quick matter to look up some discographical sources, find an interview with his son, and bring his career and personal life into better focus, thus placing the musical criticism in perspective. I hope that the hour and a half i spent on this task is well received. I did my best and will now move on. -- catherine yronwode, not logged in, because it is Sunday morning and i had no idea i was going to spend so much time on this bio just because i happened to mention to my husband that my father knew and bought pot from Mezz Mezzrow in New York back in the 1930s and that Mezz was Jewish. In other words, i came for the photo and stayed for the editing. Sheesh. 75.101.104.17 (talk) 20:24, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]