Talk:Muscular Christianity

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There are lovely references on this article, but IMHO, the article is totally wrong. Muscular Christianity was a flavor of theology, which although health-positive, was not centered around athletics. With luck I will return to this page with references to fix. (Added 06:24, 24 July 2007 by 71.112.140.115)

Does service with the military promote muscular Christianity? Some info at this link Towards a Christian Masculinity for the Armed Forces might be added in. Springnuts 19:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Well. Hm. No occurrences of "muscular", "Kingsley", or "Hughes", so I for one don't have the expertise to say, although it seems reasonable. I'm hoping the anonymous person who contributed above will bring in some references on the original meaning—assertive Christianity fighting injustice, or something, all consistent with physical training—and the transition to what seems like a modern usage—Christianity for athletes (and military men?). —JerryFriedman 16:09, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The Term in Modern British English Usage

In modern British English usage the term muscular Christianity has very little to do with Christianity. Rather, it denotes: 1. hostility to things intellectual, scholarly, scientific and artistic - in short, its meaning overlaps with that of philistinism; 2. a period or movement in the history of the Britsh fee-paying or 'public' (that is, independent or 'private') schools, when games and military values were cultivated at the expense of academic values, sometimes amid superficial appeals to Christianity.

Obviously, I'm aware that this is an encyclopedia article, not a dictionary entry, but the point needs making. Norvo (talk) 23:50, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I think new meanings belong in the article, if there are reliable sources that back them up. —JerryFriedman (Talk) 04:49, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I shall continue what the last section guy added...

No criticism section? there is something eerie to this idea, it sounds not only anti-intelectual, but endorsing a proto-fascism, imperialist,. etc worldview... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.163.21.122 (talk) 04:28, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

The last paragraph in the "Origins" section includes two critical quotations from the 19th century. The "Bible in one hand and rifle in the other" line invites criticism, in my opinion, but I for one would welcome a preferably thoughtful quotation or two critically linking muscular Christianity with imperialism or criticizing it on other grounds. I'm rather busy now and can't do it.

I'd say Kingsley and Hughes were both intellectuals, and can't see calling them anti-intellectual except in the sense that they thought intellectual activity was not the most important thing in life. —JerryFriedman (Talk) 16:53, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

too broad?

The second picture, of George Wilson, and the last section, naming a series of athletes as exemplars of Muscular Christianity, seems a bit of a stretch. Do these athletes actually espouse an ideal of Muscular Christianity, or are they just coincidentally male athletes who happen to be publicly open about their Christian beliefs? If so, they should probably be removed. Horatio325 (talk) 19:37, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

One quotation in the article says, "John MacGregor is perhaps the finest specimen of muscular Christianity that this or any other age has produced. Three men seemed to have struggled within his breast—the devout Christian, the earnest philanthropist, the enthusiastic athlete." All those apply to George Wilson (except probably for "finest specimen"). The reference for Tim Tebow specifically mentions that he's been called an example of muscular Christianity. Another reference mentions "analogies" between Tebow's and Jeremy Lin's Christianity and muscular Christianity. All these people seem to have charitable foundations and do charitable work. So I think the inclusions of them are justifiable, although other than the picture of Wilson, I'm not sure how much they add to the article. —JerryFriedman (Talk) 21:45, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

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Influence in Modern Examples

Richard Andrew Meyer, a professor of Baylor University, explains Thomas Hughes six definition of Muscular Christianity through six criteria. Meyer wrote a dissertation about Thomas Hughes notion of Muscular Christianity by analyzing the career of Lance Armstrong. The criteria is “1) a man’s body is given to him (by God); 2) and to be trained; 3) and brought into subjection; 4) and then used for the protection of the weak; 5) for the advancement of all righteous causes; 6) and for the subduing of the earth which God has given to the children of men.” Since Tebow, Pacquiao, Hamilton, and Lin in 2012, Muscular Christianity has grown immensely through the rapid growth of social media while still demonstrating Hughes definition. Additionally, women athletes have been taking part in this movement. After big games, athletes will go to social media to reach their fans about how God has gotten them this far. Speeches about God are also seen before games or before the start or end of their seasons. There are also prayer circles, usually exclusive to teammates, before a competition. A few examples can be seen in today’s widely known athletes. Allyson Felix went to Instagram in 2016 to talk about God’s athletic plan for her. She said, “I never could have imagined the challenges that awaited me in 2016. I had a master plan, but God had His plan and His will is always perfect. Grateful for this journey and excited to see where 2017 takes me!” In 2018, Russell Wilson posted a photo of him and his teammates kneeling and holding hands on the field, with the caption “It’s ALL bc of You!” with the prayer hands emoji. Stephen Curry has 4:13 inscribed on his shoes, which is a biblical scripture about God’s power to give people strength. The scripture reads “I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me”. Kirk Cousins said in a CBN News interview that “...when you know God has his hand in he has a plan, it takes much of my worry and much of my doubts, and it takes them away because I trust that he brought me here for a reason” Michael Kimmel argues in his book Manhood in America, that Notre Dame University showcases Muscular Christianity because the school practices Catholicism. Male athletes on the varsity teams are thought to practice Thomas Hughes’ 6 criteria for Muscular Christianity. Notre Dame’s football team for example, because they are Catholic men, they believe their bodies are a gift from God. Therefore, they train their bodies in the name of God. Like in Russell Wilson’s photo on Instagram, teams, and athletes will have prayer circles before a competition to get their minds in the right space. It often makes them feel better and is an open display of what they believe in. Muscular Christianity is an open display of God’s purpose and will for these athletes. Big track meets often sell shirts and merchandise related to track and field. At the Hershey National Track and Field Championships in 2018, shirts could be customized to your liking. There were prints that had Bible scriptures and other Christian sayings that could be printed on the shirt any way the athlete wished. Although this is a more subtle version of muscular Christianity, its influence is still seen.

References

Introduction and Growth of Muscular Christianity in America section -- rewrite?

I first began to copyedit the article but thought that this Introduction and Growth of Muscular Christianity in America section needed more support. It doesn't focus much on America and describes more generally the origins of the philosophy. It should probably focus more on Protestant Christians than Catholics, who are less prominent in America. The source that this section cites seems to be credible (I haven't read it all, but it's in-depth), but the source does argue that Catholics didn't care much for the ideas of Muscular Christianity.

In sum, I think this section should either be scrapped or majorly reworked. Thoughts?

note: this is my first foray into Wikipedia editing — Preceding unsigned comment added by TwoArmedMan262 (talk • contribs) 00:45, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Relevance of Muscular Liberalism link?

The "See Also" section links to both Muscular Judaism and Muscular Liberalism. Is the latter relevant? "Muscular Judaism" and "Muscular Christianity" appear to be analagous concepts - the idea that religious observance and identity should be combined with athleticism. "Muscular Liberalism" looks like a completely different concept, and "muscular" only in a metaphorical sense. Iapetus (talk) 21:57, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

A year later... I agree, and have removed the link. Robofish (talk) 18:19, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Thomas Hughes

The following merely repeats verbatim, statements in the preceding paragraph, with a spurious reference to Lance Armstrong. If it belongs anywhere it would be in an item about Meyer (who apparently is un-notable enough that he currently has no Wikipedia article). The paragraph should be removed IMO:

'Richard Andrew Meyer, a professor of Baylor University, explains Thomas Hughes's six definitions of Muscular Christianity through six criteria. Meyer wrote a dissertation about Thomas Hughes's notion of Muscular Christianity by analyzing the career of Lance Armstrong. The criteria are "1) a man's body is given to him (by God); 2) and to be trained; 3) and brought into subjection; 4) and then used for the protection of the weak; 5) for the advancement of all righteous causes; 6) and for the subduing of the earth which God has given to the children of men."' Newburyjohn (talk) 10:40, 10 February 2024 (UTC)