Talk:Mya Thwin

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On 5 January 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Mother Sayamagyi. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Notable?

Mother Sayamagyi is one of the most notable vipassana teachers in the world. See [1] for a list of worldwide meditation centres establish by Mother Sayamagyi. References are also included in the article. Mysticeditor (talk) 20:48, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide multiple, independent, reliable sources to meet our notability criteria. --Ronz (talk) 20:56, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Official website external link

I am adding the Official website of the meditation centres created by and governed by Mother Sayamagyi. The link is in the external links section. Mysticeditor (talk) 03:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:ELOFFICIAL#What_should_be_linked and Wikipedia:ELOFFICIAL#Official_links. Mysticeditor (talk) 03:46, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

internationalmeditationcentre.org is the official site for The International Meditation Center, not for Mother Sayamagyi. --Ronz (talk) 04:06, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mother Sayamagyi is the head of internationalmeditationcentre.org. Mysticeditor (talk) 04:10, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In it's place, I added a direct link to the short profile that The International Meditation Center has listed below the biography of Sayagyi U Ba Khin. --Ronz (talk) 04:17, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. I have checked a number of other entries and I agree. Bill Gates doesn't have a link to microsoft website and Larry page doesn't have a link to google website. End of disagreement. Mysticeditor (talk) 04:54, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad we could work this out together. Thanks for your patience and understanding. --Ronz (talk) 16:06, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Article editing and talk page

This article, currently titled "Mya Thwin" contains the edit history and talk page discussions. Please rename this article properly to retain this information. --Ronz (talk) 20:01, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Articles are under the subject's name. The title her followers use is in the article, and there is a redirect. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:54, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The note was meant to explain why I removed the redirect and stop the move-warring [2]. Sorry that it wasn't clear. --Ronz (talk) 21:30, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This move made without any discussion. Mysticeditor (talk) 00:55, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We're discussing it now. My main concern is that we don't lose the history and discussions in the process. --Ronz (talk) 00:58, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea how to restore the history page. My efforts to Restore things were rewarded with a warning from a bot, and then a lock down. The person who made the move with no discussion (user:Hybernator) must be laughing at the irony and his good fortune.

But according to Wikipedia naming conventions, see: Wikipedia:Naming_conventions, this page is wrongly named/titled.

Quote: Article names should be recognizable to readers, unambiguous, and consistent with usage in reliable English-language sources.

Quote: Articles are normally titled using the most common English-language name of the subject of the article. In determining what this name is, we follow the usage of reliable sources, such as those used as references for the article.

As far as I can ascertain, Mother Sayamagyi is never referred to as Mya Thwin in any of the sources, but always as Mother Sayamagyi or simply Sayamagyi.

English language sources are: Art of crossing cultures, Craig Storti; The Middle way, Volumes 71-72 - Page 142; The way to ultimate calm: selected discourses of Webu Sayadaw; The Buddhist directory: United States of America & Canada - Page 183;

Mysticeditor (talk) 02:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Response

My apologies for causing all the commotion. I should have first discussed the move. Apologies. But using a generic term like Mother Sayamagyi (Sayamagyi means Grand Teacher in Burmese) for a Wiki article name, in my opinion, is akin to titling Kim Jong Il's page as Dear Leader. Secondly, I don't think she's notable enough to monopolize the name Mother Sayamagyi when it's common Burmese custom to call an elderly learned female "mother and/or sayamagyi". The sources you cite may refer to her as such but we don't title Jesus's page as Our Lord the Saviour even though you can find a lot of Christian literature referring to Jesus as such. Thirdly, the article still reads like an ad written by a member of her flock, rather from a neutral point of view. I tried to reduce the fawning factor by removing Burmese honorifics like Sayagyi or U. (But it still reads like an ad.) Just because the Burmese language confers such honorifics as a form of respect doesn't mean that these overly respectful usages should be transliterated into English. The only exceptions are well known single syllable names like U Thant and U Nu. Never U Ba Khin or Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Burmese). If you don't agree with the current convention, please do contribute to the convention article.

With metta, Hybernator (talk) 15:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

user:Hybernator I fully agree with the rest that the title of this page is wrongly named as Mother Sayamagyi fulfills all the 5 characteristics as per Wikipedia:Naming_conventions. Though Sayamagyi is a common Burmese term, I do not know of anyone who has an English and Burmese name mixed together so uniquely like Mother Sayamagyi. Also based on Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Burmese), it's stated that When a certain spelling is widely predominant in English sources, that spelling should be used, in which case Mother Sayamagyi is clearly the right title for this article. Another point that you raised concerning monopolizing the title Sayamagyi does not hold for other titles of similar nature such as Sayadaw, in which case the monk is typically named after the place that the monk teaches (which has an even more monopolizing characteristics). I hope we could sort this out with you to change the title of this article back to Mother Sayamagyi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anicca837 (talk • contribs) 13:29, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notability, Objectivity and Neutrality.

Let us try to be Objective and Neutral and Scientific about this. If you are going to add or remove tags, then please discuss it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mysticeditor (talk • contribs) 09:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notability and deletion

Plenty of articles in wikipedia have have less notable subjects than this one and yet they are not tagged for deletion or notability. For example see Ajahn_Brahm. That person is only sourced in web articles (not books) and yet notability is not disputed.

Article name

the article Ajahn_Brahm is not named Ajahn Brahmavamso Mahathera. The name of this article should be: Mother Sayamagyi. Read : Wikipedia:Naming_conventions.

references or sources

Ok, I see 4 book sources in the article and one web reference. How many are needed? The article Ajahn_Brahm only has web references and no book sources.

tone

I have made the tone NPOV and as objective as possible. If you find parts that have the wrong tone, then lets discuss it. But as far as I see, the tone is fine now.

...and so on. Mysticeditor (talk) 09:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are no actual footnotes, just vague references to possibly-nonreliable sources. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:10, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:05, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mya Thwin → Mother Sayamagyi – Based on WP:NC, Mother Sayamagyi is the most common recognizable name and is quoted in all the reference sources in this article. In fact out of all of the source references, Mya Thwin was quoted in only one of the sources (Truth Must Triumph), and even in this source the name Mya Thwin was quoted only 12 times vs. more than 300 times for the name Sayamagyi when references were made to her). Mother Sayamagyi also fulfills all 5 criterias stipulated in WP:NC, whereas Mya Thwin only fulfills 2 criteria of Precision and Concision. Anicca837 (talk) 12:53, 5 January 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 04:44, 16 January 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 19:13, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I support the move as many students call her with the name Mother Sayamagyi Asidarta (talk) 13:55, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It certainly may be the most popular name among followers and primary source materials, but is it among independent English sources? And while the merits of the move can be considered by themselves, it does seem that we are at the risk of some single purpose account view pushing here. I'm putting myself as a tentative oppose while looking for evidence that we aren't simply basing a decision off what the followers of the subject want as the title.--Yaksar (let's chat) 00:14, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There are 3 independent English source materials, in which 2 source materials have no relation to the International Meditation Center (which Mother Sayamagyi is affiliated to). The more important question to answer in this discussion is whether the article is correctly named. All primary English source would refer her as Mother Sayamagyi. Mya Thwin is only known among Burmese speakers. It's the same as some footballers that have Wikipedia articles named after their nickname rather than their actual name (eg: Bebeto, Dunga, etc) - if these articles are named after their actual names, no one would have known who they are. --Anicca837 (talk) 12:00, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.