Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Ohio

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May 2008

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to List of Registered Historic Places in Ohio, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Tylerpuetz (talk) 04:15, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Here is the reply, I posted on his talk page, which he has since deleted:

List of Registered Historic Places in Ohio

Hi, I find it hard to believe that you reverted four of my edits as vandalism,. I;m working on this article to convert the individual counties to tables. It is way too long and the tables will make it longer. What I am doing is what I have done in other places is transferring counties with large numbers of listings to separate articles. This is standard practice in NRHP lists. Please undo your revert. Best wishes. clariosophic (talk) 04:37, 14 May 2008 (UTC) clariosophic (talk) 08:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC) clariosophic (talk) 09:06, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Size of article

Due to converting to table format, the article is getting much longer, approaching 190KB now. I had been transferring counties with 40 or more listings to separate lists, but it looks like 30 should be the transfer point. Any thoughts on this. Another alternate, which I don't favor, might be to splt the whole article into groups of counties such as A-L & M-Z, the way Texas, Georgia and Virginia have done. Thanks for your input. clariosophic (talk) 03:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

There's also the possibility of making each county it's own page. I know a (very) few states have done that. Not fond of that idea, either, but at least it would be all-or-nothing. --Ebyabe (talk) 03:34, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

My preference is not to create separate pages for each county. I think using a cut-off as Clarisophic suggests is a better idea. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 05:02, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I prefer the cut-off idea as well; it seems cleaner. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 15:03, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Dissection

This definitely has to split as it's reachiong 300 KB. How does making it List of Registered Historic Places in Ohio, Counties A-? and have List of Registered Historic Places in Ohio redirect there. Then have links at the top to List of Registered Historic Places in Ohio, Counties ?-?, List of Registered Historic Places in Ohio, Counties ?-?, and List of Registered Historic Places in Ohio, Counties ?-Z. I think we should try to keep each page to around 65 or 70 KB max. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 20:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

At 147 KB this article is still gigantic. This page loaded slow on a friend of mine's computer and he has a T2 hookup. I have basic high speed (Road Runner/TWC) and it takes bit to load. How about breaking it up by county; each one gets its own page?

I just overhauled the Alabama list and needed to break out counties with 10 or more sites into their own pages in order to keep the state page under 100k. I think about half the 65 or 66 Alabama counties have less than 10 sites, so instead of 65 or 66 pages, we've got 30-something. Perhaps using the 10 site cut-off for Ohio will do the trick? --Sanfranman59 (talk) 06:50, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm ... on second thought ... I just counted only 13 counties with less than 10 sites in Ohio. I hate the idea of having to maintain 80-odd separate lists, but if the 100k WP rule is hard and fast, we may just need to bite the bullet. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 06:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Progress report

The article is now at 209 KB and is all tables. All counties with over 30 listings are in separate articles. Some between 20-29 have been cut out and the rest will be. With those cut out, the article should be under 200 KB. I suggest that we wait and see how it looks at that point when the only counties left in it will be those with under 20 listings. Some of the separate articles are in table form and I'll be working on the rest. clariosophic (talk) 19:58, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Propose page name change to reflect National Register status

Bear with me, this can be confusing . . . to clarify that this is a list of places in Ohio listed on the National Register of Historic Places, I propose that this (and the associated pages) be re-titled, "List of Ohio sites and districts on the National Register" or "Ohio Sites and Districts on the National Register of Historic Places." For individual county pages, the new (and more accurate) title may read "Highland County, Ohio, Sites and Districts on the National Register of Historic Places." Thoughts? (It may be splitting hairs, but it is important!) Thanks!--BFDhD (talk) 19:28, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to post your proposal over at WT:NRHP since it would affect all of the state and county lists. I'll comment over there. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 20:01, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

This was raised and discussed specifically at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#Propose page name change to reflect National Register status. To summarize (perhaps slanted to my view), the proposed name change would cause more problems that it would solve. doncram (talk) 23:09, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I understand everyone's perspective on the National side (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#Propose page name change to reflect National Register status), but in Ohio's particular case, there is a very important distinction to be made. In other states, a place that is "landmarked" (or "designated," depending on your parlance preference) is listed not only on the local (city/village/township/etc.) level, but also on the state and national registers of historic places, so keeping the overall page name for the national level at "List of Registered Places" is acceptable. In Ohio, however, the same protections are not afforded to National Register listees. For starters, Ohio has no state register of historic places. Although it does have a list of sites operated by the Ohio State Historical Society, some of those sites listed on the State Historic Preservation Office's Web site are explicitly not places on the National Register. That something in Ohio is listed on the National Register means just that: it is on the National Register only and not a state register. (In some cases, places on the National Register from Ohio are not even listed--let alone protected--at the local level.) There is an implication, therefore, by calling them "Registered Historic Places in Ohio" that the places in question are protected by the state, and they are not. For this reasoning, I believe the distinction should be made (and I'll gladly correct the pages as needed!)--BFDhD (talk) 16:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

All counties have new tables, etc.

All counties are now in table form. Cleveland has been cutout from Cuyahoga County and has its own articles in table form.

I will split Cincinnati out from Hamilton and Columbus out from Franklin and remove the temporary subsection dividers, so the remaining lists will be interactive.

Some tweaking remains to be done on disambiguation and linking. A problem I've encountered (especially in Cleveland) is historic districts vs, neighborhoods, which may or may not have the same name as each other, and further may or may not cover the same territory, e.g. the district may be only 3 or four blocks, while the neighborhood is 70 or 80 blocks. There has been some talk about this on the main NRHP talk page,

FYI, the main Ohio list is now down to 148KB. Should it stay there (but it will get bigger when more images are added)?, or should some more or all counties be split out into separate articles? Your comments, please. clariosophic (talk) 04:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC) clariosophic (talk) 04:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC) clariosophic (talk) 18:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

If there are going to be subpages, IMO they all need to be in separate articles. I think it'd look cleaner to have a uniform look to the article. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 17:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean that each county should have a separate article? clariosophic (talk) 18:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, articles, not subpages. Yes. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 19:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

That sounds good. That's how New York and Massachusetts have done it. clariosophic (talk) 21:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC).

Cincinnati and Columbus have been split out and the remaining tables in their counties have been reworked. Thanks to Stepshep for doing the Muskingum County table that I missed. So I think we all all tableized. If not, please advise. clariosophic (talk) 11:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Time to start working on the redlinks? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 19:26, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

• So should we start moving all of counties to their pages? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 20:59, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Just posting a note of thanks to §hep & clariosophic for all the hard work on the Ohio pages. This native Ohioan says "kudos to you!". --Sanfranman59 (talk) 01:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The listing is complete as of...

I was thinking, instead of updating 88 individual pages with the line This list is complete as of the Recent Listings dated June 13, 2008, why not have it in one place and transclude it? I made {{OHNRHPDate}}. This could be placed on every article, and whenever someone checks through the most recent listings they can update it and the information will be reflected on all of the pages. How does that sound? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 01:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

This is what's been done for other state lists (Florida, Alabama, California & Connecticut that I know of). --Sanfranman59 (talk) 02:29, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

No opposition, I'll add it to all of the pages. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 02:37, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

References

fourth of July, or bust, drive

Hey, seems like there is a thriving discussion going on here, nice to see. Per "fourth of July" discussion on wt:NRHP, could anyone help start the remaining NRHP articles for the NHLs in Ohio? Any help developing good stubs, or even bad stubs, for the red-links on List of NHLs in OH would be appreciated. And cleanup of existing NHL articles would likewise be appreciated. doncram (talk) 23:14, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll set aside a week to do a few. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 23:43, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec) Thanks! To clarify, the drive is only about the National Historic Landmarks (which are all NRHPs), which we are trying to finish up nation-wide, and 20 or so (20% of all that remain nation-wide) are in Ohio. By the way, sorting List of NHLs in OH by county, I see there is just one NHL in Allen County, and it is a red-link: Miami and Erie Canal Deep Cut. It would be great if you'd do that one and any others! Thanks, doncram (talk) 23:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep, that's my home twon and I'm halfway done with the stub. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 23:56, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

New ones

I'm really short for time, but here's the new ones if someone wouldn't mind adding them:

OHIO, CUYAHOGA COUNTY,
Ansel Road Apartment Buildings Historic District,
1588 Ansel Rd to 9501 Wade Park Ave,
Cleveland,  08000589,
LISTED, 7/02/08

OHIO, FRANKLIN COUNTY,
Ealy, George and Christina, House,
6359 Dublin-Granville Rd.,
New Albany,  08000626,
LISTED, 7/02/08

OHIO, HAMILTON COUNTY,
Hatch, George, House,
830 Dayton St,
Cincinnati,  08000583,
LISTED, 7/03/08

OHIO, HAMILTON COUNTY,
Verona Apartments,
2356 Park Ave.,
Cincinnati,  08000625,
LISTED, 7/02/08

OHIO, MAHONING COUNTY,
Burt Building,
325-327 West Federal St,
Youngstown,  08000588,
LISTED, 7/02/08

OHIO, MEDINA COUNTY,
Medfair Heights Apartment Historic District,
221 N. State St.,
Medina,  08000624,
LISTED, 7/02/08

OHIO, MONTGOMERY COUNTY,
Dayton Canoe Club,
1020 Riverside Dr,
Dayton,  08000591,
LISTED, 7/02/08

OHIO, OTTAWA COUNTY,
Island House,
102 Madison St.,
Port Clinton,  08000623,
LISTED, 7/02/08

OHIO, PORTAGE COUNTY,
Byers, John F., House,
5551 S. Prospect,
Ravenna vicinity, 08000590,
LISTED, 7/02/08

OHIO, SUMMIT COUNTY,
South Main Street Historic District,
156-222 S. Main St., 153-279 S. Main St.,
Akron,  08000622,
LISTED, 7/02/08

Thanks! §hep • ¡Talk to me! 22:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

All of these were added to the appropriate county and city lists, I just checked all of them. Happily, that confirms Sanfranman59's accuracy in updating from the NPS new listings. doncram (talk) 16:47, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Some more came out today (04:22, 25 December 2008 (UTC)) OHIO, CLARK COUNTY, Masonic Temple, 125 W. High St., Springfield, 08001195, LISTED, 12/17/08

OHIO, HAMILTON COUNTY, Pinecroft, 2336 Kipling Ave., Cincinnati, 08001197, LISTED, 12/17/08

OHIO, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, Bull, Jonah, House, 2233 Wayne Ave., Dayton, 08001198, LISTED, 12/19/08 §hep • ¡Talk to me! 04:22, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Kewpee Restaurant

I noticed that the NPS gives more locations than the Allen County article has. I was going to generate a new table with Elkman, but it didn't include nay new ones. Yet, in the infobox creator when I search for 82005081 it gives me the info. Anybody have an idea? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 00:47, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, yes, that is a puzzle, that Kewpee shows up in Elkman's individual NRHP generator but not in Elkman's county-table generator for Allen County. In some other cases like this, it has turned out that the NRHP has been demolished and delisted, i think. The individual generator still shows them, if you provide the refnum, but those do not appear in Elkman's county lists or in the individual generator under non-refnum-based searching. Does this Kewpee place still exist? Anyhow, any discrepancies like this can be noted at wp:NRIS info issues, where Elkman has commented on some other situations. As a practical matter, you cannot do better than start with the Elkman county table, which covers National Register listings through approximately April, 2008. Then, yes, it is possible you will need to manually add additional rows for later listings and perhaps for some few discrepancies (assuming you have adequate research addressing those). Hope this helps. doncram (talk) 01:42, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Yep, I'm a local and just ate there last night. I took a picture too becasue I thought it was already on here. There's osme listed here that have been demolished though, but still show on the NPS to be active. What's the case with those? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 01:46, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Please do note those at wp:NRIS info issues. I just added an entry about Kewpee Restaurant there. But the demolished and still-NPS-listed ones are even more important. I expect to notify the NPS about apparent errors, in batches of similar types of errors, for them to correct the NRIS system and/or investigate. doncram (talk) 01:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll try to put a list together. I took the info off wiki last night for a school photo project and found huge chunks of missing buildings just down the street ie 221 to 209, and between there, there should have been 2 RHPs. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 01:54, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

clickable map and Ohio topnav and other development

The clickable map for Ohio counties does not work currently. For many/most counties, the links to relevant sections here or separate list-articles need to be updated.

Also the topnav template is big and bulky and I do not want to use it in the present article, now that there is a tally table of the Ohio counties. In the current version of the article there are too many different ways to navigate to one set of county tables. Why not add a differently formatted navbox at the bottom, too? :) Actually the main page here could consist mostly of some intro text and the county tally table. Perhaps the smaller counties' tables would best be moved to a new list-article National Register of Historic Places listings in Ohio's smaller counties.

I started to address some of the top stuff by moving selected contents of the navbox, including the clickable map, into this article, and to begin editing it here. I didn't realize the clickable map file size addition would be so big, so I don't mind that StepShep just saw fit to remove it. But just the clickable map needs to be put into a new separate template, without the extra date stuff and without the nav list, so that editors here can more finely tune this page. Does the navbox have use anywhere else now? It definitely served a good purpose for a while, but I actually don't think it is appropriate for use in any other articles, either. In other state NRHP list systems, such navboxes have been dispensed with. doncram (talk) 22:16, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

If you could compile a list of what needs updated I'd be happy to go through and fix the links. I've removed the content specified from the template, is that what you were aiming for? §hep^Talk 22:34, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Within the clickable map, for Williams County and all others whose small tables appear here, the link needs to be revised from "National Register of Historic Places listings in Ohio#____ County, Ohio|____ County" to "National Register of Historic Places listings in Ohio#____ County". The pipelink serves no purpose and can be dropped, but the critical part is dropping the ", Ohio" which prevents linking to the proper #____ County section. But searching on "#" and revising all that way is not enough, because many of the counties whose tables formerly appeared here have been moved to separate pages. I think every county's link needs to be checked. If the topnav template is revised to be just the clickable map, which could be fine, then it should also be renamed more suitably. That would be a better way to preserve the topnav template's edit history and past versions, rather than just delinking from it which would cause it to be orphaned and deleted eventually. doncram (talk) 22:42, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Noticing how large this entire page is, and seeing that some of the larger counties on this list are significantly larger than some independent county lists for other states, I've been considering moving out some of the largest lists. I think I'll wait until everything else is hammered out. Nyttend (talk) 00:15, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Listings Duplicated in Second County

The last entry in the tally of number of listings by county is (duplicate) and cites 1 duplicate. There is at least one more, raising the total to 2. The footnote to this item should add: The Hocking Valley Railway District runs from Logan in Hocking County to Nelsonville in Athens County. NotWorthington (talk) 05:56, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the sharp eye! Adding that in.... doncram (talk) 06:50, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Link check

Links last checked for pictures/redirects on 29 September 2009. Nyttend (talk) 16:17, 29 September 2009 (UTC)