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hangon

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A {{db-person}} was placed on this article.

The wikipedia is not a memorial. We don't currently cover the bulk of 9-11 victims, or surviving loved ones of 9-11 victims in individual articles. At one time some of these individuals were covered, and, after discussion, that coverage was trimmed, because the wikipedia is not a memorial. The individuals whose articles were excised, or merged, were otherwise unexcetional people, who had been living otherwise unexceptional lives, who weren't covered in WP:RS in anything other than obituaries, or articles about them were basically memorials.

I agree we shouldn't carry articles about victims or survivors of 9-11 or any other disaster, that are basically memorials. But victims or survivors whose stories are exceptional, and for whom there are WP:RS documenting how they are exceptional, should continue to be covered.

I believe that Palmer is an example of an exceptional individual because the team he lead was the team that got highest in the second tower to be struck. His story documents that the firefighters had no idea that the building was going to collapse, right up until the moment it did collapse.

Several hundred victims were on the floors above the impact, unaware that because the second plane struck at an angle one of the three stairways remained sufficiently intact that it was passable. Palmer's team had climbed to the impact zone, and had either discovered the intact stairway, or were about to find it. I believe this is noteworthy. Geo Swan (talk) 00:50, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Floor?

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The article states, in the intro, that the plane struck at floor 78. It then, further down, says that the impact was at floors 77-85. The same is said in the article on Flight 175 and others. So, which is it? Because if the plane did impact floor 78, but the impact reach all the way up to 85, but only down to 77, that's a mighty weirdly shaped aircraft.31.209.55.158 (talk) 16:47, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Street name confusion

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I am a bit confused about the name of the street that was named in Palmer's honor, as I'll describe below. That confusion has resulted in this revert of my edit by Nightscream. That revert was fair, since I didn't really explain my edit.

The street sign definitely says "Deputy Chief Orio J. Palmer Way" (with "Deputy Chief" in small letters), and that's the name reported in the source that the Wikipedia article cites. However, that's not the name given on maps (official or otherwise), and in practice you'll have trouble finding it under that name. For example, Google Maps calls the street "Orio J. Palmer Way" (see here), and in Google Streetview displays the name as "500 Orio J. Palmer Way". A search for "Deputy Chief Orio J. Palmer Way" on Google Maps instead defaults to "755 E 233rd St", the home of FDNY Engine 3/Tower Ladder 12/Battalion 7 (but maybe we can blame that on Google trying to be smart).

The street sign is not currently visible on Google maps (hidden behind a US flag), but a good photo is available on this page run by the Historic Districts Council. Note that the Historic Districts Council lists it as "Orio J. Palmer Way", regardless of what the sign says. The official New York street planning website here lists it as "500 ORIO J PALMER WAY, Bronx, NY, USA" (search for that on the website), in agreement with the Google Streetview result mentioned previously.

Should we go by what's on the sign and the original news report, or what's in official documents and maps? Renerpho (talk) 21:05, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for opening this discussion. Google accepts submissions from users, which is why my old high school was referred to as a "prison", and then after I corrected that, was reverted back to that name, presumably by the same vandal. The place where I work was given not by its name in English, but in Spanish. By contrast, the New York Post, and presumably, the Historic Districts Council, does not. Since both of those things refers to to the street with "Deputy Chief" in its name, with the latter source showing a photo of a sign indicating this, then that would seem to be more reliable. Nightscream (talk) 00:33, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Google isn't wrong though, since they're displaying exactly what the official New York website is saying. So I'm not sure they'd change it. Your hospital/prison mix-up is a bit different, unless you can show me an official website where it was actually called a prison (that would be quite funny, actually).
But okay. What do you think about adding the link to the Historic Districts Council which I posted above, as a second source? What had happened to me was that I read the article, and then got confused when I couldn't actually find the street on Google. We can easily prevent that from happening again. It has the added benefit of including an actual photo of the sign, as well as information about the exact location of the street. Renerpho (talk) 01:00, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Nightscream: Google is, of course, wrong about the "trying to be smart" thing, with the redirect to 755 E 233rd St. I'll consider submitting that, thank you! Renerpho (talk) 01:01, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fine by me.
Btw, that should've been high school, not hospital. Don't know where that brain fart came from. Nightscream (talk) 15:22, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Calling a high school a prison makes more sense to me, but hospitals can feel like that, too. Anyway, I've added the citation. Thanks! Renerpho (talk) 04:22, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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