Talk:Panzer (disambiguation)

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Requested move 16 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The consensus is to redirect, and the article/dictdef is already tagged for merging to German tanks in World War II. -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:55, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Panzer (disambiguation) → Panzer – The target article is nothing but a dicdef. There is nothing to write besides the word in English means "German tank". Staszek Lem (talk) 17:00, 16 May 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Oppose. Panzer should redirect to German tanks in World War II. Calidum 17:45, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Please explain the reason for the target you suggest. (I do have an idea, but I want to see your argument, so that we can discuss.) Staszek Lem (talk) 18:23, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Because the primary topic for "panzer" in the English language are Germany's World War II tanks. Do you dispute that? You're the one suggesting there is no primary topic for the term. Calidum 18:38, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - (edit conflict)I would dispute this. First, the word more closely aligns as a technical word with the English word “armor” than with the narrower technical word “tank”. Next the term isn’t nt restricted to People from Germany, but to Speakers of German, or even some who borrowed the word. Finally, the word is still in use, not a historical legacy. Qwirkle (talk) 19:40, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - I am afraid you are misunderstanding something. In English Wikipedia, we care primarily of English language. Foreign language terms are covered only if they are borrowed into English. In English usage, it is "German tank". Period. If you disagree, please provide references to experts who define it differently (in English usage). And of course, it is still in use, no one says otherwise. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:48, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        No, I don’t think I am misunderstanding anything here. Contemporaneous usage was as likely for other AFVs as for tanks in the strict sense, and the term was still used for German armor in the 80s, well past WWII. American heritage gives “A German armored vehicle, such as a tank, especially of the type used during World War II.” Note that it says “especially”, not “exclusively”. Qwirkle (talk) 20:06, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        Note that "especially" means exactly that it is the [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC|primary topic]Staszek Lem (talk) 20:22, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        No, the primary topic would appear to be armored fighting vehicles, not tanks, according to a rather good dictionary; why should we overule them? Qwirkle (talk) 20:29, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - I agree that it is probably a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, per linking criterium, unless someone claims otherwise. However if you want to make this redirect, you have to have some text in the target article explaining the term. I do not suggest there is no primary term. I just suggested the move per discussion in Talk:Panzer with user:Volunteer1234, without much thinking. I am OK with redirect. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:23, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - the primary meaning is the tank one, if anything happens here, the page should be redirected as Calidum suggests. Parsecboy (talk) 19:16, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and redirect Panzer to German tanks in World War II per Calidum as a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 20:42, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - it seems we have a general consensus to redirect Panzer to German tanks in World War II, which I also support. Volunteer1234 (talk) 14:16, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Which is to say you think 3 guys on wiki have more weight than a reliable source. Qwirkle (talk) 14:24, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What if we renamed Panzer to Panzer tank and then redirected it. Volunteer1234 (talk) 15:36, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and done that. I think it works and hopefully will make everyone happy. "Panzer" could now be made the disambig. Volunteer1234 (talk) 22:17, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion is less than 2 days old, and far too soon to declare a clear consensus, so no, I'm not happy. You also clearly don't understand what "primary topic" means, or you wouldn't have moved the page. - BilCat (talk) 22:41, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I understand primary topic, the article is about Panzer tanks so the article so it should be named after the primary topic. Volunteer1234 (talk) 16:19, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that the common name isn't "Panzer tank" but "Panzer", but even.if the article is at Panzer tank, Panzer is still the primary topic for the tank, as expressed by consensus here. So Panzer can't host the DAB page because of that. - BilCat (talk) 17:15, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose moving DAB page. Weak Support that Panzer should redirect to German tanks in World War II. - BilCat (talk) 22:41, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppse any changes to the disambiguation, which is well designed, but redirect Panzer to German tanks in World War II. There's a common misconception that a "panzer" is something unique to the German military of World War II, and the existence of them gave Germany a significant edge. In reality, the term is simply German for "tank". Our articles should simply take readers to what the term actually refers to. Nick-D (talk) 23:23, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose any amendments to the dab. Panzer is just short for Panzerkampfwagen which means tank in German. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comments - I've added Merge tags to Panzer and German tanks in World War II, as this discussion now concerns those articles, and thus warrants notices on those pages. - BilCat (talk) 19:41, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If panzer is to be merged into German tanks in World War II, please mention the word in the intro. — AjaxSmack 00:26, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.