Talk:Parícutin/Archive 1

Archive 1

Elevation

The Elevation in the box and inside the article do not agree. Hu 17:06, 3 December 2005 (UTC) frrreakko

Stress mark in name?

In the article title, the stress mark is over the second i: Paricutín. But in the body of the article, the first i has the stree mark, and the second has none: Parícutin. Can anyone clarify which is correct? Cactus Wren 05:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The name, which was the name of a village before the volcano was born, is doubtless from the Tarascan (Purhépecha) language. I do not know how it is pronounced in that language. But in Spanish it is regularly written and pronounced with stress on the final syllable, hence Paricutín. See e.g. the Spanish Wikipedia article on the volcano. The name of the volcano as it was made known to the world came through Spanish, and it makes sense to preserve the Spanish orthography and pronunciation, as do all the other-language links at the bottom of the article. Cf. the fact that the volcano is in the state of Michoacán: even though that name was originally from Nahuatl and pronounced with the accent on the penultimate syllable (Michoácan), the spelling and pronunciation Michoacán is now standard in Spanish and therefore correct for English use.

I am in fact changing this back throughout the article.

One additional point: in citing articles or books, we should respect the way the article or book had it written. The first cited article consistently writes the name with no accent mark, so I am changing its title as cited here to match that way of writing it. The second I have left as was, since I haven't seen the book in question.

--Lavintzin 23:32, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Hold on, now. I am working with the Luhr and Simkin book, the definitive title onthe subject. They use the accent on the second syllable. I note that their photocopies of Mexican sources have it both ways. THere appears to be some confusion even in Mexico, but I would trust the editors of the standard tome to have it right...And I just spent a bunch of time today fixing links and such for consistency--Natcase 12:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC) PS: I have an email out to Luhr, who may be able to provide clarification.--Natcase 13:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, this from Jim Luhr at the Smithsonian:

Nat,

Indeed there has been much confusion on this subject. The volcano, of course, was named after the nearby Tarascan town of Parícutin, which was buried in ash and abandoned early in the eruption. I was guided to place the accent on the first "i" by consulting earlier authoritative publications. In 1945, the Mexican National University published the first scholarly volume about the eruption titled EL PARICUTIN, in which they accented the first "i". Likewise, the classic 4-part USGS Bulletin 965A-D on the eruption, including Foshag and Gonzalez-Reyna (1954: Birth and Development of Parícutin Volcano, Mexico) used that spelling, as did Dr. Atl in his 1950 book Como Nace y Crece un Volcán, El Parícutin.

So, I'm going to go back to Parícutin--Natcase 00:50, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, good enough, I guess. But it should be mentioned in the main article as well. I'll put something in, perhaps.--Lavintzin 16:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I lived in Mexico, including Michoacan, in 1977-79. I heard people pronounce Paricutin with the stress on the last syllable (potty-koo-TEEN) I never heard anyone say it with the stress on any other syllable. I think the native American language would not stress any syllable, not sure.

The rules in Spanish are simple:

1. The default is to stress the next-to-last syllable with no mark used or needed.

2. A written accent mark pre-empts rule 1 (as in Paricutín).

There are some additional customs:

3. Words that end in -in almost always have the last syllable accented, as in Joachín (hwah-KEEN) hijín (ee-HEEN)

4. but there are exceptions such as mitin (MEE-teen, imported from English, means 'meeting').

5. Very common words known to all don't need the accent (such as Mexico)

6. The accent is usually written as needed with lower case, usually not written with upper case but it can be.

7. Do not worry about it. If you get it wrong just shrug and smile.

I think the reason Paricutin is commonly pronounced potty-koo-TEEN is because of rule 3. The native pronunciation, whatever it was, is gradually being forgotten. People are just pronouncing it the usual way such words are pronounced.

What I recommend is no accent here because the accent requires special characters which vary from computer to computer and it isn't really needed because of rules 3 and 7. Just put it as "Paricutin (potty-koo-TEEN)" first mention and Paricutin thereafter.

Friendly Person 13:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Friendly person: My intent by making the main entry accented on the 1st syllable, but mentioning the alternate accent, was to note inconsistencies. Because the original name is Tarascan, it seems appropriate to show it accented as it is in Tarascan as a primary entry (just as we primarily accent Hawai'i, but refer to anglicized spellings. Certainly people can choose to omit accents, but as an encyclopedia, I support pointing out the origins and authority of alternate spellings. Perhaps we should add an additional note of unaccented spellings?--Natcase 16:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, this sounds good then. You have reason for your spellings. I'd say enough time spent on it --Friendly Person 04:05, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

This is a case of the linguistics of oral language, where -- as usual -- there is no right or wrong. In Purepecha placenames the stress is often on the third syllable from the end (as in the case of the neighbouring town of San Juan Parangaricutirimícuaro), hence the name would be pronounced [pʌˈrɪkutin]. Since this is a rather odd stress in Spanish, non-Purepecha-speakers shifted the emphasis and pronounced the name [pʌrɪkuˈti:n]. The reason being, that the ending -ín [i:n] already exists in Spanish as a diminutive form -- the name was pronounced as if it meant "little Paricuto". Does this make Paricutín wrong and Parícutin right, or vice versa? No, it makes both right. Originally, it may have been [pʌˈrɪkutin], but outside Michoacán it's [pʌrɪkuˈti:n]. 200.76.211.48 (talk) 19:42, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

New User

Some new user put this in. It clearly doesn't fit the page, and I don't really understand what they're trying to say, so I'll cpoy it here and let y'all hack it out "inconsistency's

started erupting in feb 2000, and stopped in 1957. Someone with more expertise might want to fix this. I am new to wikipedia so sorry I don't know right way to report this." Motor.on 01:48, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

No, it started in 1943, ended for good in 1952. Who knows what the user was trying to say. Thanks for policing....--Natcase 03:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The village

Surely the volcano would have been named after the village as the volcano didn't exist before 1943? 82.32.238.139 17:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

See above; yes, it was named after the village--Natcase 16:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Book

When I was a little kid we read an illustrated children's book about this. I think it was a famous book. Does anyone have the name of that book? I could look for it myself but not now. --Howdybob 15:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• I realize it's a bit late, but I suspect you're thinking of the book "Hill of Fire." It was featured on an episode of "Reading Rainbow," thus the fame you're probably recalling. jSarek (talk) 09:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

A thousand killed?

The website <http://www.paricutin.com> under the tab "Facts" states that nearly 1000 people were killed by the volcano Paricutin in 1949. I cannot find any other mention of such a catastrophe anywhere. All other articles I've seen only mention 3 killed, by lightning generated by the volcano. Is this 1000 figure bogus? Maybe Wiki should clarify the question? Friendly Person 14:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Paricutin is named after a town called Paricut not Paricutin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.203.54.15 (talk) 00:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Archive 1